ep1str0phy

In fact, I just added a brief endorsement to my (e-mail) sig. Hopefully someone will bite.

I'll tell my friends to go here for searches...

Organissimo has a very grassroots feel to me--one of the most thriving (and, if the threat of spamming is any indication, widely read) jazz BBSs online, springing up out of a pretty unlikely online outpost (which should not act as an opinion on the band--just that both Jazzcorner and AAJ are outgrowths of jazz information "hubs", whereas this space is a little out of the way). Maybe not bohemian, but definitely down home.

Do they have access/rights to the tape?

I am either boring, or have an ability to endure boredom which exceeds some other people's, because I think that AAJ is consistently interesting. Come to think of it, both of the above possibilites may be true. Yeah, nothing to denigrate your enjoyment of the spot--I think it's just managed to rub a few of us the wrong way (and that with reference to the board in my case, if not specific people). But it's Organissimo or either AAJ's generally unreceptive mindset or the gladiatorial massacre that is Jazzcorner, so I'm happy here...

That just sounds so dirty...

We've had lots of folks deal with this material recently, and the results haven't always been pretty. (though I enjoy the relatively straightforward, if extremely reverential, approach that Wadada's been taking with this material... fun, if not tremendous material). Liebman does seem fond of repertory work... (Just a note--got a copy of Drum Ode recently--which I hadn't heard before--then proceeded to freak my own ass out by pulling the LP out of the bag back cover first... that is one freaky looking photograph. They just shouldn't be that big.)

To be fair, the debate quickly devolved into whether or not Rahsaan was a valid flute player (I think)... after one too many attempts at defending relatively mainstream playing, I got tired of playing middle-left in a right-of-center field.

I can relate. I write stuff for the site, but the bulletin board is not my cup o' whiskey. Yeah. I've had good experiences with the staff I've communicated with (not too much in the way of editorial issues, although it may just be that I've been really in the box this whole time). I left the board, though, after someone argued with me for using the word flautist (that spelling).

So you've seen Tyondai live? After the samples, I'm pretty interested... And, so long as we're on the 2nd generation topic--what are y'all's thoughts on Djinji Brown? Heard some of his stuff--colorful, and subtle in its own way (Brown family subtlety? Or am I just hearing things?...).

Candy Dulfer Djinji Brown Tyondai Braxton

That seems to be common wisdom among collecting in general. An old friend told me pretty much the same thing when I started collecting music.

There still is a hip hop subculture that is alive and well. My son is a big fan of a group called dead prez, another group called Mr. Lif, and another called sa-rah they don't get much radio play because they are considered too radical in many commercial circles. Something is still alive out there I think.

On the Tyondai Braxton link above, there's an MP3 file that can be listened to. Didn't get through all of it, but on first encounter it sounds like some seriously hairy stuff. Good for him. His website actually has a couple of samples--the first one a pretty apocalyptic wall-of-sound affair, the second a jangly, guitar-laden sound collage. It's interesting stuff for what it is, and very interesting coming from a second generation avant musician who has approached progressive material from a different angle altogether. Perhaps it's for folks like us to discuss, as only the wikipedia entry seems to mention who his dad is (although the resemblance is strong enough, shirts and all)... those are family dynamics, though, and no business of mine (though I'd love to hear dad/son collaborate on something--seems like they'd fit together, granted some of A. Braxton's recent interests). Again, JS finds a way of articulating the intended sentiment (so consider me a fan of fortune cookie logic). On clifford's note--for the folks who are really uneducated, I'd like to consider just how much energy people want to put in in the first place (which of course is another serious concern in this field...).

Sage words again, JS, and it's important to be reminded in these conversations. I think it's crucial to point out that, at this historical juncture, education should not act as a substitute for self-discovery, as my finest and wisest have taught me... On what frankie said--I don't think that's true. I've felt a strong sense of political consciousness about the younger "free" players, although it is often articulated in diverse ways. I'll throw a name out there just so we have one--Jeff Parker. There are many more. Again, I'm not sure that it's more than a moot point to prescribe to the new generation habits and mores, although teaching history is another thing altogether, and examining the causes (always a scholarly purusit) is another. If the whole of the new generation is as astute as a lot of the avant kids--and lord knows that Tyondai is wearing sweaters like his dad does--then so much the better for "the spirit", if not these sounds were so accustomed to.

IIRC, I started lurking on here because my brief activity on the AAJ forum bored me out of my mind.

Man, I wish I could afford those import prices myself...

The same goes for Anthony Braxton's son. I haven't heard Braxton's son's music myself, but my son -- a member of the Chicago-based rock band Crush Kill Destroy http://www.crushkilldestroy.net/rock/ckd/ -- has and says that his stuff is excellent. That completely blows my mind. I'd certainly like to hear A. Braxton's perspective on that generational transformation, as I don't believe I've ever heard him articulate on the circumstances of youth culture.

Again, I would say that that cuts across racial lines, but I could be wrong. I am not a student of sociological research, or at least haven't done any w/r/t this music. Sorry, diidn't mean to imply that it's a phenomenon specific to the Af-Am youth. I'd say it's more specific to youth culture in general (and an extrapolation of the seedier parts of what used to be the hip-hop subculutre, amplified themselves into something grotesque).

The only brick-and-mortar I've seen with the Blue Regards is Amoeba, fwiw.

Well, to introduce a common but completely unproven/non-scientific point, it may be the case that the "jazz"/creative music of today is so alien (not just sonically, but socially, demographically) to urban Black youth that the exigencies of "suffering for" or committing to the art just aren't there anymore. We can debate the causalities a million ways, but it is equally pertinent to diagnose the symptoms in this case--which perhaps no one is prepared (either spiritually or technically) to do. The prospects for playing this music, even as a means toward individual enlightenment/determination/empowerment (etc.), cannot be quite what they were communally or politically in the mid-late 20th (if the pull ever was that strong, but I can't answer that), and--especially in an era when self-fulfillment is often equated to glamor and excessive wealth--modern improvisation (in all its tropes) is a challenging creative option. It could very well be that this just isn't where the fire is anymore (Olu Dara's son, Marion Brown's son (etc.) are all engaged--creatively--in other timely musical pursuits). Has anyone here really stepped back and looked at the demographics for this music? (I've had a hard enough time coming to terms with being a Filipino up in here...) (actually hoping that clem will chime in on this, as he seems to have something to say on the free music/Black youth axis)

Collier's early albums are masterpieces in that particular idiom, methinks. In his less poetic moments, though, he may come across as a little arid--even when his writing/playing is technically together (and I have yet to hear an example otherwise). I'll have to disagree on the BoB Cuneiforms, although those live dates are indeed strong in a ragged sort of way. What almost always comes off better in the studio (for the BoB) are the intricacies of the arrangements--which, it seems, ceased to be "the point" not long into the band's existence (when performances got wilder and formally extended). If not debating the merits of the performances themselves I will say that I prefer the studio material for actually miking Dudu Pukwana well (which isn't the case on a lot of live BoB stuff we've got--which is odd, as he effectively led the reed section). We're dealing with another case of fidelity v. spirit, although in this case fidelity makes it really difficult to hear what the heck is going on in spots (probably what Passing Ships sounded like in that early mix, but to a far less severe degree). I'll say this, though--that Isipingo disc is a monster, and probably as successful a live date as anything we've gotten out of the extended BN family (which is saying a lot).

Yep, looks like they're different recordings. The Konnex CD is half a large group side with multiple pianos and a full chorus doing a post-Aylerian march, half the small group sides with "Bass Is", "Coleman", and "The Bird". From what I can gather, the LP (which I've never seen and have no information about, although I'd assume it is a double-LP... I'd check the online Stevens discography but it looks wonky right now) is the same thing.

Just out of curiosity, C--your uncle did the CMIF thing? What were his experiences with Smith's end of things? On a more "semantical" issue; we proceed with terminology as we must (and not necessarily just because we can). It's not the words that bother me; it's that when we don't look past free jazz as an historical innovatory option (and not the absolute utmost that things can be) we run the risk of getting stuck in the 60's (sonically, if not spiritually; if we--as in the community--were spiritually "with" the post-Aylerian axis, or, moreover, the AACM cats, the music world of today might be different). The decreasing viability of improvised music among the youth may have as much to do with its association with bygone eras and ancient esoterica as it does with simple matters of taste. I think it's important to emphasize that the "old" avant-garde is a historical entity and that what younger people (like Matana) play is related but isn't the same thing as what came before. Surely "avant" today is not what "avant" was yesterday, even if the continuum remains... (in other words, contrary to what might be popular opinion, the functional "jazz" avant-garde of today isn't entirely comprised of pre-baby boomers.) Then again, I speak from the perspective of someone who is most likely to unexperienced to not quibble over rhetoric, tho I'm not sure things will work out when my beard gets white. As per my perspecitve on the education/community thing: it's there when you can find it, but it's certainly not where it could be. The Bay Area, for example, is one of the three to five most fertile regions for improvised music in the United States; the scene here is flourishing in outlets and cubbyholes, although among the handful of nationally/internationally prominent institutions in the area, only one or two offers any extensive course of study in improvised music performance (Mills comes to mind; Berkeley was and will remain a composer's school, and very centered on the post-Wyntonian straight-ahead mindset). Considering who has come in and out of the Bay Area, though (Leo Smith being one very prominent example), the options for study in this area are decidedly guerilla).

I'm thinking of "Let's Sing for Him" on SME Big Band & Quintet (Konnex--I have the CD issue) which did, incidentally, feature Pete Lemer (not sure about Pepi, as my CD is in a different part of the state right now). Is the Konnex the same as the Marmalade?