The Magnificent Goldberg

King George V King Edward VIII Mrs Simpson

Some interesting languages to choose from there... I am wondering wich language is 'ItalianoEnglish'? 'The Sopranos'? It must be the Italian equivalent of Franglais. Never noticed I hadn't got rid of all the rubbich at the top. MG

I agree with this 100 per cent None of the people mentioned in this thread is a favourite of mine. History makes us what we are. Maynard Keynes - "In the long run, we are all dead". Quite right. MG

That seems to get it, for me, Bev. MG

Jim Sangrey remarked, a day or two, that he thought music was essential, though CDs might not be. I thought this was an interesting question for discussion, so here we are. First, definitions; but let’s not bother to define music and just agree with J K Galbraith who said, in a very different context (money), music is what you think it is, whoever, wherever and whenever you happen to be. Let’s, however, look at “essential”. And this is difficult for us, because we live lives of luxury in a social construct that is predicated on our undoubted ability to obtain it. Bearing in mind the distinction that Jim made between music and CDs – which I think attempts to distinguish between, on the one hand, what every human being needs and, on the other, what some of us happen to want, and can get – I think we have to say that essential implies a direct contribution to survival; all the rest is the luxury that an “advanced” society brings with it. And it’s relatively easy to start off a list of those things – sex, food and water, clothing, shelter, energy and the knowledge and skills to obtain them. But as soon as we include sex, education and training in the list, we’re agreeing that there is a need, equally essential, for what one might broadly call community support. Community support takes many forms. It includes religion/spiritual appreciation, social order/politics, stories and music. The latter two are most important, because it’s through them that experience and knowledge are passed down from generation to generation. But they are more important than that. Community support also implies community spirit and stories/music is the most important way in which community spirit may be fostered. And that is why every human society, from the hunter/gatherers of the Kalahari Desert, to the inhabitants of cities of the West, has music. So I’d argue that music is indeed essential. But what music? Clearly, music that fosters community spirit, music that transmits values and experience down the generations. Equally clearly, not what we might describe as “art” music, which is predicated on consumption by very limited numbers. The vast majority of the world is no worse off for a lack of acquaintance with the music of Purcell, or Hank Mobley. Equally clearly, not what we might describe as “industrial pop” music, which is predicated on the industrial strength of large firms to promote and create artificial demands for it, in order to satisfy industry’s constant requirement for built-in obsolescence (is that true, I wonder). Almost inevitably one has to think in terms of “folk” music – music that arises from the audience. But I don’t imagine many will agree with me. Good. MG

He was like rock candy! Seriously, you could also call it being a "synthesizer" and, no disrespect to Miles, isn't it more or less what every artist above a certain talent level does? That is, pick up on things already in the air, process them through their own sensibility and come out with some "new" synthesis? Well, no. I think that you're kind of using language to obscure. There's a spectrum of innovation - and your statement is true right across the board - which, at the one extreme, is the development of a personal and expressive style and at the other is revolution. But at the revolutionary end of the spectrum, for a very few artists, something a bit more is happening. In my view, they're developing a new paradigm, through looking at whatever it is musicians look at from a completely different angle - albeit a "legitimate" angle; these people are not merely eccentrics; not merely geniuses; revolution occurs because there's a need for it and the innovator is the first to catch hold of the need and find the new way of looking at things that satisfies it, or the first to do so in a way which does satisfy it. Some revolutions may occur without a genius innovator taking the lead, it seems to me. Who was the genius innovator for Swing? I think lots of people were experimenting in lots of areas and in lots of ways and things kind of came together - though I'm not terribly well versed in that history. For Bebop there was actually a framework - the Eckstine band - in which most of the main protagonists came together formally, as well as informal get togethers at Mintons. So in this case there were several innovators/revolutionaries working in concert (couldn't resist it). But Ornette seems to have had his ideas on his own. So... MG

Rogatien Remillard Marc Remillard Jack the Bodiless

Nat "King" Cole. MG

I used to have dreams like that, when I was putting in the Department's new finance system. I think computers are bad for you. MG

I'd certainly buy a CD from her, so long as it wasn't one OF her. MG

Vanessa Redgrave Sir Michael Redgrave Daisy Scudamore

Bollocks! Portsmouth 1 Cardiff 0. Actually, it was a pretty exciting game. MG

(But I think Cardiff will win.) MG

Yeah! Though I'm not a great football fan, I shall be watching Cardiff play Portsmouth this afternoon. If Cardiff win the FA Cup - for the first time since 1927, it will REALLY piss off the English, because Cardiff will represent England's FA in international competitions - and the Welsh national anthem will have to be played. It's really anyone's match. http://goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=699626 MG

So you'd rather censor the film makers etc than control your family's viewing material that offends you. Sound like the soft option to me. MG

But not, as far as I know, with Gene Ludwig. Interesting. Haven't heard Hamilton since Humph used to play his stuff a lot in the eighties. MG

First I've heard of this. You mean, Miles actually pioneered in 1972 a music that had been developed by James Brown and, on the jazz side, Freddie McCoy in the mid-sixties. Wow! That takes some doing! MG But neither of these guys dabbled in Indo-jazz fusion and Stockhausian repetitive grooves though, which Miles (with Buckmaster and Teo) did integrate into the mix. Oh, well, that's something else then, not what I (or most people) understand by Funk/Acid Jazz. MG

Good point. Not sure whether it's true or not. Some arguments each way, I suspect. Words like "gosh", have lost whatever impact they ever had (except as anachronisms now). But it's forty years since some playwright, I forget who, used "fuck" on British TV, during which period there's been no ban on using the word, in appropriate contexts. But the impact seems undiminished. Maybe 40 years isn't long enough... MG

We had some menthol ciggies over here, but I can't remember the brands. I thought they were horrible. Give me a proper ciggie that I make myself with nobbut tobacco in it. MG

First I've heard of this. You mean, Miles actually pioneered in 1972 a music that had been developed by James Brown and, on the jazz side, Freddie McCoy in the mid-sixties. Wow! That takes some doing! MG

Jane Roe Henry Wade Virginia Wade

Up. Ate at IHOP with the fam this morning and there's a cd exchange a couple of doors down so I check it out and low and behold they have a copy of Katanga sittin' there for $5!!! It even has the OBI strip. As soon as I got in the car, I popped it in and was astonished how good this album is! Its been said before, there really isn't a bad one in the bunch. Now all I need is five more, and I'll have'em all!!! Katanga is amazing, nice find Native Land will have you reaching for the repeat button. And it's a KILLER on the dance floor! MG

Yes, I'd call it West Coast bop/hard bop, with an edge at times. Well, I think all Amy's fit. In general, there are some records that straddle the boundary - if there really IS a boundary - and a few of those lean a bit one way or another. You could say the same for a lot of Horace Silver albums as well as Blakey's "moanin'", couldn't you? I wasn't terribly concerned with using the list to DEFINE the music, because I wouldn't want to do that. MG

Certainly. I cut out "6 pieces", "Song for my father" and "Serenade to a soul sister" pretty late in the process. And every cut, of course, early or late, was made with regret , because I LURVE that stuff. MG

Yes - though I wasn't a teacher. I did occasionally give lectures to school parties, though, and I'd say what was linguistically appropriate in the circumstances. Sometimes, that would include swearing. I don't see why people should eschew any part of the whole resources of the language that they have at their command. And particularly if, in doing so, they're simply conforming to authoritative rules. A very good example was in the recent Kieth Olberson rant about Bush. After ten minutes of steadily rising anger, he finished by NOT saying "shut the fuck up" but "shut the hell up". Whatever you think of his politics - and I know you disagree with them, Conrad - Olberson was not addressing children in that broadcast, and I was mightily offended at being addressed as a child at the end, simply because Olberson chickened out. MG