The Magnificent Goldberg

Sonny Phillips - My black flower - Muse promo Houston Person - Stolen sweets - Muse promo Pucho & the Latin Soul Brothers - Yaina - Cubop reissue Freddie King - A bonanza of instrumentals - Crosscut reissue Billy Wright, Prince of the Blues - Stacked deck - Route 66 (Savoy recordings from 1949-1954) MG

It was rather like that in London, too - and probably all over Britain (and the world). And the money must have been apalling. In those days, 45s were three for a pound. (And the dollar was about three to a pound, too.) But you could go to the Blue Moon Club at Hayes Football ground on a Sunday night, and take two friends with you, and still have enough for a drink (one small one) for the price of a 45. And beer was cheap then, too; one 45 = 7 pints! So I don't know who was making money, because on a Sunday night there'd be two bands, and they'd play all evening until about midnight or so. MG

$50K is an amazing amount of roylties to have accumulated, for someone who only had, what, two albums as a leader? MG Three on Blue Note. (Others on others.) I would bet the nineties cd reissues in US and Japan generated the coin. Ah, I didn't realise there would have been other labels' royalties in there. MG

Jimmy McGriff - The groover - JAM orig Woody Shaw - Love dance - Muse orig Teddy Edwards - The inimitable - Xanadu orig MG

$50K is an amazing amount of roylties to have accumulated, for someone who only had, what, two albums as a leader? MG

Arnold Sterling - Here's Brother Sterling - JAM orig MG

Erroll Dixon Amos Milburn Alan Milburn MP

More, it seems to me in this case, that apparent action will serve to maintain confidence when scope for real action is lacking. But it doesn't (often) work. Although it's true that there's one born every minute, the corollary is also true. MG

Thanks Guy - I think perhaps I expressed myself a lottle too forcefully there. I wasn't inteding to suggest a literal conspiracy rather than that an ambiance is created, which as you say, passes around because people talk. And people also move from job to job. Within this general environment, things are seen as being OK which can be seen from the outset as appearing to be too good to be true (no matter that no one knew how bad it was going to be until June) becaue they apparently enable people to get something for nothing. Anyone with any financial sense (which these people DO have) can see that is a pipe dream and must end in tears. But a highly dynamic environment is much more suitable for making big killings than a stable one. And is more fun to work in. I'm not terribly convinced by the "people want 'em" argument. People wouldn't want 'em if they weren't being offered by the institutions because they don't have the knowledge to know that this sort of thing is even possible. Of course, once offered, the cat's out of the bag and all the institutions have to go along with it. And once that happens, no one wants to pierce the bubble. MG

Bleedin' freezin' here!!!! The temp is not quite down to zero, but the wind is coming direct from Greenland! Spent about ten minutes shopping in Ton and was glad I was wearing wooly 'at, gloves, scarf, thick quilted jacket. And still glad my wife had the heater running all the time she was waiting for me! MG

Kurt Mohr? I didn't know about him! Very sorry to see him go. MG

I thought you'd know a thing or two about Hamburg Steve - thanks for that interesting post. I do know a few London bands went to Hamburg. Cliff Bennett & the Rebel Rousers, Screaming Lord Sutch & the Savages and, I think, Chris Farlowe & the Thunderbirds. But you're probably right to say that more northern bands went. MG

Actually, I think it's catching up. Just got one that I think was only 3 days behind-hand. MG

Robbie Robertson was Hawkins' lead guitarist on that record. Levon Helm was the drummer. Sure you knew that and were just tired. Well I was tired - but I never took much notice of the later incarnation of Levon & the Hawks (or any rock past '63, unless it was unavoidable). So I did think Levon was the guitarist Thanks Paul. MG

How could he live with all that clutter on his walls? MG

I think there was a lot too much rock in Auger for me. Never took to him. Never took to rock. MG

Don Cherry (the other one) Don Ho The Signifyin' Monkey

There's a spectacular 4CD Cliff Richard box set on EMI called "The Rock 'n Roll Years 1958-1963" which focuses on the good stuff. Great sound, great package, and I got mine for about $30 on Amazon Marketplace. I'm telling you, to my ears, that box and the Beatles BBC sessions were like the Rosetta Stone for getting from the 50's rockers to the Beatles. I'm sorry, but the Beatles, Searchers, and other Liverpool groups were not just the logical continuation of USA 50's R&R to me, or to a hundred million other kids in the USA in '64. I may have seen it differently in England, if "Love Me Do" and "Sweets For My Sweet" wre my introduction to this stuff, but I was here, and it was "I Want To Hold Your Hand", "She Loves You", "Bad To Me", and "Needles and Pins". Maybe that's the better question - how did the Liverpool groups come so far in 12 months from some of their really early, much cruder stuff? And it happend in London a year later. How did the the Yardbirds get from "Good Morning Little Schoolgirl" to "Heart Full of Soul" (I know part of the answer is Jeff Beck, but he wasn't the writer), how did the Stones get from "It's All Over Now" to "Satisfaction", how did the Hollies get from "Poison Ivy" to "I'm Alive", each in 12 months? Is it just that they learned how to write, or is something else involved? Where do groups like Cliff Richard and the Shadows (especially Hank Marvin), or Johnny Kidd and the Pirates ("Shakin' All Over") fit into the equation. Where do Americans like Jackie DeShannon (the originals of "Needles and Pins" and "When You Want Into The Room") fit in? Weren't the Searchers really doing a form of folk rock a year prior to the Byrds and Dylan? America wants to know! (or at least this American does). Once you hit "Livin' doll" with Cliff Richard - summer '59 - there's no more R&R, just the same stuff as Philly was churning out. Ah, Johnny Kidd & the Pirates - forgot about them; "Shakin' all over" WAS a bit of a classic. Other stuff wasn't bad. Yes, I can see the gap if "She loves you" etc were your intro. Mine was Take out some insurance on me baby/My Bonnie by Tony Sheridan & the Beatles; a pretty decent impression of pre-Army Presley. That was recorded in Germany, for Polydor, and for the German market. I don't know how much has been written about Hamburg in connection with the British group development. Perhaps Steve can chime in here. But, once a band had reached a certain level of proficiency/success as a pub band, the next move was to get them a short residency (a few weeks) in Hamburg. Loads of British bands did that; some more than once. I never went to see any of them, 'cos it was so much cheaper to stay in London But that process seemed to continue into '63 and maybe '64. Songwriting is interesting. Although so much British rock & Roll was junk, there were some interesting songs being written all the time. I doubt whether there were any direct influences on the new bands. But there was certainly an ambiance around. Some of these songs were written by the pub bands that were recording, others by pro songwriters. A few interesting ones: Screaming Lord Sutch & the Savages - Till the following night; Jack the Ripper Cliff Bennett & the Rebel Rousers - That's what I said Mike Cox - Tribute to Buddy Holly (a much better song than you might expect) John Leyton - Johnny remember me; Wild wind; Son, this is she All of the above produced by Joe Meek, who was also doing very inventive things with sound effects and distortion. He was, in a way, the British Phil Spector - definitely wall of sound stuff, but not an orchestral so much as an electronic wall. And it couldn't be reproduced on stage. I think there are a few Joe Meek compilations that might be interesting in this context. But Meek was slightly later than the first wave of British R&R singers we were mentioning earlier, and slightly earlier than the new bands. He started his own label, Triumph, in 1959 and had a hit covering Sam Cooke's "Only sixteen" ( I think). But that was the only one and the label folded; Meek went on as an independent producer, licensing his material to EMI & Decca. And he was very successful up to sometime in '63 as far as I recollect. I don't want to give the impression that he was the only one out there doing interesting stuff; he wasn't. But I particularly liked that stuff and I remember it, even the bad records like the Tornados' "Telstar" (which wasn't really typical Meek - a more typical instrumental would have been The Moontrekkers' "Night of the vampire"/"There's something at the bottom of the well"). (I tried to get a job with Meek in '62, but he told me to fuck off.) Oh and don't forget that there were some pretty interesting records being made in America. One that seemed to impress everyone with a real interest in music was Ronnie Hawkins' "Bo Diddley"/"Who do you love", mainly for Levon Helms' guitar solo. I don't think that was a hit in America (nor was it in Britain), but that didn't matter in terms of the rock underground that was developing. Other interesting US stuff included Piano Red's "Doctor Feelgood"/"Mr Moonlight", in 1961, which the Beatles later recorded, Percy Mayfield's "River's invitation" with the Ray Charles band in '63, and "Soul motion" by Don & Dewey - Clapton used to say that was his favourite record - I think that was '64. And, of course, Bob Dylan. I think people were getting inspiration from a lot of different sources - none of them in themselves crucial but cumulatively forming a generally interesting environment. Much of this was not popular but well known to the keen fans and to the bands - and if it wasn't well known to the bands, we bloody soon made it well known to them. Bedtime. MG

Yes - perhaps he's a closet fan MG

I got mine from Hiroshi Tanno in March. Don't know if he's still got copies. But it was a cheapo - 1000 yen. If he hasn't got it, try HMV Tokyo. (It was oly released in Japan.) MG Was available from dustygroove for a long time at 12.99, but has disappeared, which pisses me off because i didn't buy a copy! errr Go for Hiroshi. Mine was only the equiv of $11 from him. There was something else you wanted from him, I think. MG

Earl Neal Creque and, if we are including film directors (another move - this thread will soon look like Sue records ) Ousmane Sembene MG

Lee Morgan Lee Hazelwood Lee Remick

I got mine from Hiroshi Tanno in March. Don't know if he's still got copies. But it was a cheapo - 1000 yen. If he hasn't got it, try HMV Tokyo. (It was oly released in Japan.) MG

Sonny Cox & the Three Souls - Dangerous Dan express - Cadet orig stereo Thornel Schwartz (with Bill Leslie & Larry Young) - Soul cookin' - Argo orig mono Waymon Reed - 46th & 8th - Artists House orig Anyone remember Waymon? Worked with James Brown, then Thad Jones/Mel Lewis, then Basie, then married Sarah VAughn and became her music director. Died 1983. MG PS with Jimmy Forrest, Tommy Flanagan, Keter Betts & Bobby Durham

Is there a good compilation (I don't need completion)(and it's probably on Ace) of these British r 'n r acts before they got tamed? I don't remember ever seeing anything like that on Ace. It would be a bit unlikely, because the three main artists all recorded for different major labels. EMI and Universal are issuing plenty of product by the main artists who were around in the late fifties/early sixties - but you wouldn't want any of it because it generally doesn't focus on the type of material you're interested in - just the hits or LP reissues. The period before these singers got "tamed" was pretty short. With a lot of them, all you really get are a few B sides where they were able to do something like what they may have wanted - not prime stuff for a general compilation aimed at the nostalgia market. Cliff Richard made one whole LP like that, which was kind of OK. But it's sunk without trace - Amazon UK lists 174 of his albums, and it isn't among them. If you want to find the vinyl, the title was "Cliff" - so it's not a good thing to try to Google for. MG MG