mmilovan

He indeed rarely soloed, but he was very capable, interesting musican. For those interested how he played there are tracks on Basie Old Testament heritage (Decca and Columbia sides), and probably more on broadcasts of the same band (recently I've got so called Chatterbox Pitsburg 1937 Basie broadcast, where Jack Washington is featured on at least 3 tracks). I think he also was member of Bennie Motten orchestra, and if I am not wrong, he soloed there also.

brownie, how many titles from JATP w Pres, Jones, Brown... are on this DVD?

These are beautiful news to hear. God knows how many unissued takes are in (Verve?) vaults somewhere. Some of us are still in wait for complete 1950-60 (and further) JATP. (there's been rumors about something that Granz brought along with him in Europe when he sold Verve back in 1960's, so who knows...)

brownie, lets clear few facts: As I can understand Jones/Rich/Brown Young/Harris/Philips/Fitzgerald is the different film from Ballade/Celebrity, or is the same? If it is different, can it be some JATP session when Oscar was still not always in rhythm accompaniment? Around 1949., I guess, or so?

Popup window informed me that everything had been moved here: http://www.jazzmessengers.com/, Under the URL: http://www.jazzmessengers.com/ProductInfo.asp?ref=108574 is our DVD.

I found many titles here: http://www.thebebopshop.com/acatalog/The_B...__DVDs_167.html

brownie, I simply can not believe my eyes what I have read just right now! More totally unknown Pres on film, more "Jammin The Blues", more Bird, more... These are surely the best greetings in New Year - to know such material exist! BTW, I searched for the web and haven't find the title except that cover image attached to my reply. Is this the same 2 DVD set? And I have to disagree about keeping away from products like this one - why "great of them all greatest" film/record/publishing companiens never even tried to inform us about such things, not to mention to reissue them in affordable price!

Jim, can you hear HIS voice while playing the bridge section of first solo chorus (time 1:30)? That hip high voice! I can, clearly! (BTW, two days ago Santa Claus send me a gift - "Chatterbox" CB Old Testament Band broadcast (1937). Titles like "Tattersfield Stomp" and Pres soloing drives me completly nuts. Similar to J. J. Johnson I became preschoholic!)

It seems to me I'm alone in digin' Rich on this date - probably it would be more canonic, orthodox straightforward bop with Max or Klook, but, in a way this is more interesting.

Perhaps, but noone knows - in later years Pres was not so consistent, yet he can play beautifully, especially slow ballads or slow blues.

Chris, many thanks for those enlighten rememberings about new material you found then, back in 1970's. That take was real great one! If I can understand whole thing correctly, Columbia did, during 78 rpm era, safety 16" acetates for everything that went on studio, right? So, that explains how that particular take of "All Of Me" turned out in today's Columbia's release of BH material - we can hear studio talk (they talked about execution of tune - that exceeded particular 3 1/2 minute), if I understood a somewhat mouldy sound between Lady and studio guy. Did I heard correctly strange noise artifacts bouncing across that take in 33,33 rpm like style - was that acetates 33,33 rpm? Can we expect more acetates of old recordings to became available in future?

Hell yes, but nothing until now has been found, as far as I know. It surely be great. According to Lewis Porter biography on this subject, Pres canceled his contract with Granz (how, how, he recorded in Paris for Verve), and signed with United Artists. The first session was prepared to be done with large string ansamble. He ordered poster to be made. But nothing happened! Or it did, and we don't know.

I like that classic album Dizzy, Bird and Monk made together for Verve, and I will never understand why all people dislike Buddy Rich's drumming on this particular date? Rich was capable soloist and he did fine job supporting this all stars date, in really swing-to-bop manner. What is your opinion? Do you like or dislike Rich on this one?

Flurin, yes, it probably can be the real answer. Honestly, I never thought about such possibility. For all the takes and CD's I discussed, info about takes was written on back cover. Don't know the situation right now - does Fantasy clearly stamped information about takes, as they used to do back in 1988 or so.

Listening to some issues, I've noticed one fact that is not clear to me! For an example, lets have a look in one of my favorite albums: OJCCD-234-2 - Bags Meets Wes! Seven tunes and for some it is displayed clearly from what take chronologically they originated (for "Stairway to the Stars", there are two issued takes on this CD - take 3 and take 2, for "Delilah" Fantasy issued only take 4 and take 3 - in that order, and so on). What happened with lower take numbers (such as for "Delilah" - no trace of takes 1 and 2)! Were they really takes or breakdowns? Did they erased them from original master or other secondary tape? The same question occurs for "Jingles" - issued takes have serial numbers eight and nine!!! So, can we hope for more alternate takes music material in years to come (I am asking this question for any other releases by any other record company), or this is it, and there is no more? Did musicians way back then recorded so much takes (about nine of them)? (I know somewhat similar story from 78's era, when they dubbed grooves directly into the wax or lacquered surface, and according to that story, wax was often polished or melted if something went wrong while recording the tune, so wax was reused for another take. Still some alternates survived for us. But did the same happened in era of magnetophone recordings, or tapes were simply dumped in trash or erased) Of course, not listed here is most extreme example that I find in some Art Peper OJC - 46 takes! Really 46? Well I can not figured it out how they recorded 46 takes. And if they did, it was a bit weird thing going, the whole concept felt after 5th take, lets say...

These are rally sad news! He was quite good with Herman. R I P

Speaking of Pres folowers: anyone noticed strong connection between the way Perkins and Eager listened to Pres?

Is it Chico Hamilton with Perkins, Hall and Lewis.... - he is so much alike to Papa Jo when trading fours.

Is this new issue available now?

This is something really interesting!!! Fletcher with Lucky! Couw, did you hear something from these albums? And, speaking of members of the band, do not ever forget that Jimmy Crawford was regular Jimmie Lunceford drummer for many years!

I think pryan have Pres in his avatar too!

Only similarity goes for the tembre for both of them. Pres certainly was something to much different. "Bud Freeman, oh, my... I've never been influenced by Bud Freeman" - Young

The box is probably great for its good sound. And for novice Basie's listener, it is probably something special. But for some of us, who expects, dreams, and think about complete Columbias it is not winner. I, myself, am in wait for that unique box for almost 13-15 years. And with no hope for change, because THIS set got all the nominations and prizes. "And - that's all folks. We (Columbia) did, what we did, what else to do....? What would you like, COMPLEEEEETE Basie? C'mon, who will buy that?"

Speaking of famous 1-14 track - did Desmond ever played tenor? And, as long as discussions are on theirs run, I will always scream for 2-8. Give me that 24 hours a day - and I will never get bored with it. It is my first and last reaction to this take. Marvelous.

So, this is already 13th page of our test, and many people already guessed things. I will write down things I really know (I will be discreet as much as I can), but there are huge amount of material that sounds new to me, so I guess I can be wrong with most of it. Disc 1 1. It is very interesting piano playing. Still, I don't have clue what it is. 2. Another good piano work, but...? 3. This is West Coast like arrangement, so it can be some of them bands worked there. Trumpet player with his staccato phrasing reminds somewhat to Roy Eldridge, but probably he is not the player here. Altoist has that very interesting tone, it can be Lee Konitz, I am not sure. 4. Well, this is interesting! Trumpet player with plunger reminds to Cootie Williams, trombone is like Lawrence Brown, there is pretty fast baritone player, and awful fuzzed guitar that I dislike. And also clarinet that reminds me to pre bop clarinetists. And all those high notes like Cat Anderson used to play. All suggest deepest respect to Ellington's sound, I am interested what this could be. 5. "That's My Desire", don't like the vocal. Arrangement reminds to Count Basie post war Hefti's things but it can be Quincy Jones. Alto player reminds to Marshal Royal... probably it is not. And, piano sounds like no Basie at all. 6. And this is beautiful vocal done by... Helen Merrill, no...??? Beautiful voice, good tune and string support done well. Fine take, I like it. It is not jazz at all, but easy listening music. 7. Interesting playing, I don't have the idea... 8. "Perfect Love", tenor has that fat, strong tone, with bop inflections... like some Texas tenors. I don't know, it can be Jaws, but he was a bit harder with all that growl and other effects. Jacquett, Arnet Cobb maybe, or Gene Amons... I don't think it is Stitt. 9. ? 10. It is legendary Baby Dodds, you can't be wrong! No? Zutty Singleton has that similar pre Walter Johnson/Jo Jones feeling for using cymbals, but art of woodblocks can only be attribute to Dodds. If it is not, than nothing... This is the way he played those drums behind Louis Hot Fives and Sevens. I know - IT IS MAX ROACH! :) It can be Sidney Bechet, he played drums also in that style. 11. Very early WWI recording, or recreation of that period. Acoustically it must be recorded during that period. Oh my, what it is, anyway? 12. Lester Bowie? It is not Ornette, hmmm... that free jazz driving me nuts to guess. 13. Pefect swing band. Late live Woody Herman? Chart is good written and solos by tenor, alto and clarinet reminds to Woody's Herds. Alto - Art Pepper? Tenor... No it is not Zoot, nor it is Getz. Jimmy Giuffrie or Serge Chaloff, maybe, but audibly it is not from 1950-55 period, so - damn trick question!!! Sax lines recreates that four brothers sound, on clarinet it can be Woody... 14. (one answer from member of "Lester People" fan club) "Almost Like...", of course. And almost like Pres! Lester recorded the same tune for Verve two times - with Peterson and in 1959 with french musicians. Great standard, and great tenor, if I may say. All I know it is NOT Getz - or maybe he is drunk to death (no fast passages), nor Zoot (no specific tone and tembre), nor Quinichette (no specific triplets and licks)! It can be Wardell or Marsh, maybe. No, Marsh had that advanced harmonic sense. The tone of guitar player is the same as for Clifford Brown/Sarah Vaughan session, and piano is good - it easily can be John Lewis. The guitar didn't do anything to me, there were more capable players than this one. Well, this is hard guessing game... Another thing, it clicked right now: I am almost certain that according to way drummer answer in trade fours with piano and sax it is - Papa Jo, or someone who emulates him (Gus Johnson). And of course, both of them recorded with Pres in early 1950's. Interesting. 15. How strange people today don't recognize "Bill Evans of the Swing Era" on piano, with his old friend (from the same era), probably supported with the same musicians that recorded similar album with Dex Gordon. It can be Candido on conga and George Divivier on bass. I hate that electrically amplified bass sound (although I like Divivier), it is awful recorded, with vibraphone sounded like poor children's metalophone. Probably it was recorded around 1975., I KNOW THAT I don't KNOW on what album it is. Two old friends recorded this dumb tune back around 1939, with great John Kirby on bass. I listened more closely to the track. It can be Earl Hines, also! No smooth sound in bass left hand lines Willson is connected with. Jim, these are perfect questions that lead to maddnes. Anyway, I like this type of music. Disc 2 1. Fusion. 2. Ornette Coleman? 3. Mid seventies disco... George Benson, maybe 4. ? 5. This is trick question. Two of the musicians are Bud Freeman and P. W. Russell, you can recognize them immediately. But, the same group recorded that kind of material with Buck Clayton, Vic Dickenson and Jo Jones (Basie stars that played Dixieland!!! that was what they wanted to hear from those giants... bloody producers... ) in Boston. This can be form the same or similar occasion. Mid to late 1950's. I dislike the idea of putting musicans from one school to play the material from the other (such as in Boston example), but anyway, I like the overall sound on this track. 6. Rather interesting tenor but what it can be? 7. ? 8. Of course, it is great Holy Man with his Unholy presidential sideman! It is live recorded (broadcast) during less known, officially not recorded 1943-44 period, and despite I do not own exact broadcast the title can probably be something like "Kansas City Stride" or anything like that. (Agustin, location can be Sherman Hotel, and Sweets drunk 2 beers already :) ) These are rare recordings, and not reissued properly until today. Jim, many thanks for bringing these rare of them rarest gems to all of us. Unholy throws perfectly constructed extended solo (oh man, THOSE free licks - it is free jazz, yes, people free jazz at his prime early form) that was amazing then. And it is amazing today as well! 9. Not Rollins... ??? 10. It is some old singer singing new stuff. 11. ? Again, Jim, many thanks for all this good music you brought to our community.