king ubu

uhm, because we're all self-hating masochists?

Yes! I'd love a Verve Mosaic! The problem only is that Lonehill has four volumes compiling all that material, I think. At least the later. The earliest of it was on the Jacquet/Webster Verve Elite disc, and one of the albums (also on a Lonehill twofer) was in the LPR series. So alas, I'm afraid that's never going to happen.

Wow, that's indeed an amazing photo!

I think there was an RCA CD containing exactly the same sessions as disc 4 of the Mosaic. In that case I assume what you miss moslty are the great photos and some interesting comments to read... I'd have been surprised if you'd not owned most of that music anyway!

plenty of older jazz they could reissue... the rest of the George Lewis sessions, the Ammons/Meade Lux Lewis, the Swingtet material, and most of all the Art Hodes! Also I think not all of the Bechet material was recently out on CD, but then I just may have missed a couple of those late 80s CDs (seems back then almost anything was on CD at one time... but a lot of it was OOP by the time I started buying CDs in the mid-late 90s).

zippermouth blues

Got the Gwigwi Mwrebi "Kewala" disc (Honest Jon's) yesterday and immediately gave it a spin - absolutely lovely music! Thanks a lot for reminding me of that one - I think I once saw it in a local shop, years ago, horrenduously prized, then completely forgot about it. Good to get a couple of glimpses of Ronnie Beer, too! Who's that Laurie Allan? (A lady I assume, right?) Anyone knows anything about her? She appears on the early (pre-BoB) big band track by McGregor that I put onto my BFT. (The disc was recommended over in the Blue Notes box set thread)

No, not problems - just I love Griffin that much, and the lush huge sound of Coe holds somehow more interest to me as well. But I've never heard Scott outside of the CBBB so maybe I'd just have to hear him in another setting to re-evaluate his contributions there. Of course the fact alone that he was a long-standing member of that band means he must have been a great musician - not the slightest doubt about that!

Yes, I have the PDF, a print version of the catalogue (where I made lots of symbols "buy definitely", "buy", "maybe buy", "have", "have as part of box"...), as well as a print-out of the PDF (with more symbols... though plenty more "have" ones).

Ah, I see - I have abbreviations... they always remind me of the army - they have abbrev.itis there.

That "catalogue" (what an unstructured mess!) looks so sad compared to the printed 2003 or 2004 Fantasy catalogue I still have!

what's an RN? redneck?

wtf?

who would send moeny to help president Bush?

The Jacquet is great! But as so often with these most/least favourite threads, it's just a question of time before each set has been mentioned MG, I think you'd like the Jacquet a lot! It's full of hot jump music, great blues and marvellous ballads playing. You also get a few nice sideman, towards the end (on the RCA sessions on disc 4) even some boppers such as JJ Johnson. The long dates with Emmett Berry are lovely as well (one half was originally released under Berry's name and the other one under Jacquet's).

Good points - but again: from what I've read (little) and heard (a bit more), Contemporary should be a worthy candidate for similarly high praise? Their product had some kind of concept/planning, was mostly executed very well, and the sound and cover art was - in a different way - very attractive, too! And with Hampton Hawes, Harold Land, Curtis Counce and some of Shelly Manne's bands, they weren't even that far stylistically from Blue Note.

Interesting! That and the Tubby Hayes Proper I should get some day... So far I think all I've heard of Scott's is recordings with the Clarke-Boland Big Band, and there, to be honest, he always strikes me as the least interesting of the three tenors - thought not in a way that he's lacking compared to the others. Griffin is one of my big heros, and Coe when he does his Websterish thing gets so smooth and nice, yet often quite adventurous in his lines and harmonics... next to them, Scott seems a bit rough on the edges (and based on that impression I'm a bit surprised by his love for Mobley and Henderson, but then I wouldn't have any idea whom to compare him to, and maybe later/60s Mobley is indeed not that far away).

Yeah, reading of BN having some worthwhile contemporaries in Prestige and Riverside, I thought about Contemporary, too... why do folks forget about Contemporary even when they stress that Prestige and Riverside are as great as Blue Note? Also Pacific Jazz has been hijacked more or less by Blue Note...

Interesting point! On the other hand whenever I immerge into Parker's music (about once a year or so, and usually quite intensely), I am astonished to find how much beauty there is in his music. His sound, his lines... I'd challenge this notion of the "end of lyricism" - to compare with literature, expressionist (German) poetry (think of Trakl*, Benn, Georg Heym) was able to conceive imagery of stark beauty (also consider painters, E.L. Kirchner for instance, though much of his Swiss mountain paintings in lilac and pink is crap in my opinion)... my point being: it's about different kinds of beauty. I do see the point about the dull copycats - to some point I guess as far as the tenor sax is concerned, there are still too many of those around. But then again I guess the whole academic jazz school system keeps perpetuating itself to a large degree, with in the end not much of a goal except for feeding themselves and saving their own asses... but again I derail *) here's a fantastic page, all in english translations as well: http://www.literaturnische.de/Trakl/englis...dex-trakl-e.htm hey, that was intended as a compliment!

glad for your confirmation - otherwise my post above might have been proof of madness sometime in the future

Still need to get "Manhattan Fever" - the OJCs are pretty nice, but rather slight... "Kofi" is fine, I find! But we're derailing the thread... I see though Tom Storer is posting, I'm sure he'll bring us back on track with his concise upcoming comment!

Yes, still with some of these musicians it didn't lead to very... positive results. I still prefer old Harold Land ("Study in Brown") over anything of his work with Hutcherson. Foster and Land are obviously better examples than the musicians I listed - didn't think of either of them (though I recently got hold of the two OJCCDs by Foster which are roughly from the period in question).

And what about those earlier stages? I realise the topic title deals with swing > bop, but how about earlier similar stylistic developments? Jazz musicians from New Orleans, Chicago or NYC had different approaches, how did the transitions work? Was it similarly hard to adapt, or were those merely different dialects, while bop - to remain in the metaphor of languages - was a different language alltogether (though of the same family of languages, of course)? Take Earl Hines - he went from the early days into swing, and touched bop with his big band as well - quite a trip! Bechet for instance never embraced swing, but there must be a bunch of swing era guys who were active before. Was this change of style/set of rules an issue back then as well? Or was bop the big revolutionary break, the one, the first one? (up to what was referred to as the october revolution of jazz, at least...)

Yes, I thought of that when putting Jimmy Heath's name in that list... but those tenor sax players were already rooted in modern jazz. What did they look for in Coltrane? His vision, his spirituality? Or just technical stuff? More advanced playing techniques, harmonies? Or was Coltrane actually already in another stage that went beyond modern jazz/bop as bop went beyond swing? Probably in the end he was, roughly 65-67, but when did his influence become so overbearing that even seasoned guys like Thompson, Golson, Heath, Mobley etc. felt a need to take healthy or exagerrated doses of his playing and add that to their own styles?

I've heard little of his music, but those Blue Note Jazzmen dates are glorious! Also I think he turns up to good effect on a Condon date (included in the Classics - or is there only that Fats Waller guest appearance? - I have five or so Condon volumes, none of JPJ's alas)