Milestones

I'm just trying to digest this music myself, which I heard for the first time just a couple of weeks ago. I've long owned the first big band set, which I find to be the superior one. On the Columbia album the tracks tend to run long, and the big band itself seems under-used and (as Allen Lowe put it) fairly conventional. As with most of Monk's live records from this period that I've heard, the tempos all seem to be about the same. But I need to keep listening.

I've been a big Kenny Burrell fan for ages, and these recordings for a long time only rumors to me. I couldn't find them anywhere. Then I did track them down...this was more than 15 years ago. Loved the records, and still love them. I slightly prefer Vol. 2, in part because Burrell himself is more prominent. Great jam with Jimmy Smith on "Just Squeeze Me."

"I bet you there is an ISIS member somewhere in the world today wearing a Mickey Mouse watch." Point well taken. I think I would want Jimmy Stewart on my list too.

FILM: Charlie Chaplin Fred Astaire Humphrey Bogart Elizabeth Taylor Marilyn Monroe Cary Grant Gary Cooper Audrey Hepburn John Wayne Alfred Hitchcock

With all due respect to those speaking in terms of a decade or less, no, that is not the case. A "sensation" can have enormous fame for just a few years. By my definition, an "icon" will continue to be highly recognized for 50-100 years. Three years? Take Sinatra, who was truly famous for 50 or more years during his lifetime. Fifty years from now he will still be famous. Fame is fleeting, yet we are talking about an entire century. My initial list was incredibly insufficient.

Indeed, there is the issue of being American-centric, and possibly Euro-centric. But in more recent times it is easier to spread fame into almost every part of the word. It is about fame--the image--as well as oftentimes the facts of a tragic or controversial life.

I think Wycliffe Gordon is worth a mention, though he is more known for his trombone work. Isn't Rojas the guy in Dave Douglas's Brass Ecstasy?

Obviously some are thinking in terms of true significance on a deep level, which is entirely another matter. By and large, the people on my list are NOT terribly significant to me. I'm sure one can define the idea of icon any way imagainable, but I am saying "pop"--not "cultural." The fact that I cover only the last half of the century shows that... A) it's a reflection of my experience, having been born in 1960; 2) maybe pop icons don't last much more than 50 years. I admit I should have included a baseball player--and Babe would be the choice. Muhammed Ali is a good choice. Charlie Chaplin is a good choice. All good choices, and if we choose to make the lists more personal--then by all means. . Maybe we should create separate top 10s: music, comedy, film, sports, etc.

Just out of curiosity. By "pop" I do mean popular, and usually entertainers--often singers/musicians. I manage to get one jazz figure in the Top 10. Lists will vary greatly, I'm quite sure. Seeing the differences will be what makes this interesting. My Top 10: 1. Elvis Presley 2. Marilyn Monroe 3. Beatles 4. Michael Jackson 5. Madonna 6. Princess Di 7. John Wayne 8. Elizabeth Taylor 9. Mick Jagger 10. Louis Armstrong

I need to check out European players like Lars G. and Mats G.

Yeah, I'm quite intrigued by Portrait in Seven Shades. I've heard some snippets.

I do have some work by John Surman, as well as some others mentioned. I never heard of Ernie Caceres and some others. I am looking for particular "pieces" on which the baritone shines.

Let's hear it from the fans of baritone. The bari is the most under-used of all the major saxophones. In the early days you had Harry Carney. Then in the post-war period there was the emergence of Gerry Mulligan, Cecil Payne, and Pepper Adams. These are literally the only ones that have anything like a decent representation in my collection. Of course, there are some others--Ronnie Cuber, Hamiet Bluiet. Even in mid-size groups and big bands, the baritone is mainly just part of the ensemble sound. So how about some recommendations, some places to really hear some good bari work.

I think I went from maybe my most active thread ("bassists") to my least active ("Ted Nash").

I suppose the Wynton Marsalis connection will put some off. I don't care. I'm also a big fan of Wycliffe Gordon, who has had many associations with Wynton.

Ted Nash is quite a discovery for me. I've heard the name for quite some time, but only just recently picked up Sidewalk Meeting. He knows his tradition with versions of tunes by Duke and Monk. But for the most part we have originals, and what I would call a rather original band. Nash seems to be a multi-instrumental somewhat in the vein of Dolphy. He plays tenor, clarinet, and bass clarinet. He sound fine on all them, including bass clarinet--though quite different stylistically from Dolphy. The marvelous Wycliffe Gordon plays growling trombone--and probably more tuba than bone. He have a violinist! We have an accordian player! And, oh yeah, drums. To my ears, this music is creative and playful. However you choose to describe it (and not easy to describe), the players are one in purpose and spirit. Yep, this is an artist worth exploring.

Haden's stuff with Ornette is iconic: Ramblin', Lonely Woman, Peace, Una Muy Bonita, and more.

Hard to say what is meant here. What is modern? And do we mean bands that are together on a regular or frequent basis? Certainly I like the stuff by Carla Bley, her own stuff and the late Liberation Orchestra by Haden. There have been some very infrequent but interesting big band records by people like David Murray and Anthony Braxton. Tom Harrell did at least one big band record--and a pretty good one IMO. McCoy Tyner used the form at least a half-dozen times, and some of this music is great. Of course, it's been at least 20 years..and quite awhile since he released anything. Joe Lovano has been involved in some big band projects too--perhaps most notably parts of Rush Hour.

Just to express an opinion...nice work by Reggie Workman on the original of "Footprints" (Adam's Apple), but Ron Carter created what may be the ultimate jazz bass riff on the Miles Davis version (Miles Smiles).

Wow, this may have turned into the biggest thread of all those I have started. Just curious--anyone interested in throwing in some electric players? There certainly seem very few mentioned. These are ones I spotlighted: "Round Trip/Broadway Blues"--Jaco (Metheny) "The Giant Guitar and the Black Stick"--Steve Swallow "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat"--Stanley Clarke (Shorter's Manhattan Project)

For the record (since I got this thing rolling) here are some of my spotlight bass performances: "Two Folk Songs"--Haden (Metheny) "The Left Hand of God"--Haden "Jade Visions"--LaFaro (Evans) "Bottoms Up"--Ron Carter "Nature Boy"--Jimmy Garrison and Art Davis (Coltrane) "Alfred"--Richard Davis (Andrew Hill) "Sepia Panorma--Blanton (Ellington) "Travelin'--Percy Heath (MJQ) "Walk-A-Way"--Dave Holland "Think of One"--Miroslav Vitous (Corea) "Blue Moses"--Jamil Nasser and Alex Blake (Weston) Just a few...

Jimmy Blanton certainly makes my list. He is usually regarded as the pioneer, though Page was playing earlier. I like the bassists on Randy Weston's records, such as Jamil Nasser and Alex Blake. I've had some exposure to bassists more on the avant garde end: Mark Dresser, William Parker, Mark Helias, Ed Schuller, Michael Formanek. But some from Steve Reynolds' list I don't even know by name. This thread really took off. Clearly a lot of us pay attention to the bass--and I guess that's no surprise.

I’ve put together a couple of playlists of bass playing—well over 2 hours. The bass is certainly essential to jazz, as can been by seen in the fact that few jazz groups drop the instrument and it can be found in numerous piano/bass settings—many by the late Charlie Haden, as well as a new record by Kenny Baron and Dave Holland. Mingus, and certainly Holland, can really drive a group with their bass playing. Mingus was one of the first guys in jazz that really impressed me, though of course he was a multi-threat with those skills in composing, arranging, and band-leading. I’m a big fan of Charlie Haden, but also a whole host of players: Ron Carter, Richard Davis, Ray Brown, Eddie Gomez, Christian McBride, and many more. In electric bass, the top players (for me) are Jaco, Stanley Clarke, and Steve Swallow (not much beyond them). I’m looking for your favorite bassists, but even more particularly favorite performances. I’m not necessarily talking about long bass solos, but rather uses of the bass that are very striking and effective.

While I'm more interested in politics at this stage in my life than earlier, it is something I very much avoid in forum discussions. Note that I never used the word "political" in regard to Wright.

Gotta say, that's pretty amusing!