A Lark Ascending

My equal second favourite of the songbooks. Ties with the Ellington; the Rodgers and Hart my personal favourite.

Are you sure it's this one?

Are we all talking about this one?: With this tracklist?: 1. Can't Come Down (Garcia/Kreutzmann/Lesh/McKernan/Weir) - 2:57 2. Caution (Do Not Stop on Tracks) (Garcia/Kreutzmann/Lesh/McKernan/Weir) - 3:12 3. You Don't Have to Ask (Garcia/Kreutzmann/Lesh/McKernan/Weir) - 3:55 4. On the Road Again (Traditional) - 2:42 5. Cream Puff War (Garcia) - 5:37 6. I Know You Rider (Traditional) - 4:20 7. The Same Thing (Dixon) - 11:38 8. Dark Star/China Cat Sunflower/The Eleven (Garcia/Hart/Hunter/Kreutzmann/Lesh/McKernan/Weir) - 25:25 9. Clementine (Hunter/Lesh) - 7:49 10. Mason's Children (Garcia/Hunter/Lesh/Weir) - 3:34 11. To Lay Me Down (Garcia/Hunter) - 5:39 12. That's It for the Other One (Grateful Dead) - 20:53 13. Beautiful Jam (Grateful Dead) - 4:41 14. Chinatown Shuffle (McKernan) - 2:54 15. Sing Me Back Home (Haggard) - 10:26 16. Watkins Glen Soundtrack Jam (Grateful Dead) - 18:31 17. Dark Star Jam/Spanish Jam/U.S. Blues (Garcia/Hart/Hunter/Kreutzmann/Lesh/McKernan/Weir) - 18:59 18. Eyes of the World (Garcia/Hunter) - 18:30 19. The Wheel (Garcia/Hunter/Kreutzmann) - 11:14 20. Stella Blue (Garcia/Hunter) - 11:37 21. Estimated Prophet (Barlow/Weir) - 10:52 22. The Music Never Stopped (Barlow/Weir) - 7:24 23. Shakedown Street (Garcia/Hunter) - 17:25 24. Cassidy (Barlow/Weir) - 5:47 25. Hey Pocky Way (Modeliste/Neville/Nocentelli/Porter) - 6:02 26. Believe It or Not (Garcia/Hunter) - 5:04 27. Playing in the Band (Hart/Hunter/Weir) - 12:24 28. Gentlemen, Start Your Engines (Barlow/Mydland) - 4:09 29. Death Don't Have No Mercy (Davis) - 6:41 30. Scarlet Begonias/Fire on the Mountain (Garcia/Hunter) - 19:34 31. Bird Song (Garcia/Hunter) - 13:09 32. Jam Out of Terrapin (Grateful Dead) - 5:08 33. Terrapin Station (Garcia/Hunter) - 12:34 34. Jam Out of Foolish Heart (Grateful Dead) - 5:24 35. Way to Go Home (Bralove/Hunter/Welnick) - 6:27 36. Liberty (Garcia/Hunter/Hunter) - 5:59 37. Lazy River Road (Garcia/Hunter) - 6:57 38. Eternity (Dixon/Wasserman/Weir) - 7:35 39. Jam into Days Between (Grateful Dead) - 7:04 40. Days Between (Garcia/Hunter) - 10:59 41. Whiskey in the Jar (Traditional) - 5:14 42. So Many Roads (Garcia/Hunter/Hunter) - 9:57

...dropped through the post. Django Bates first for six years. A name probably unknown in the States but one of our most quirky and original composers and bandleaders. Imagine a contemporary sounding jazz band with influences from Zappa, 70s Canterbury rock, Viv Stanshall and Hermeto Pascoal! File next to your Robert Wyatt albums! Totally distinctive and hugely entertaining.

I mean the nostalgia comment in the nicest possible way, Lon. I more or less gave up on rock music in the late-70s with a few exceptions and for a time found my musical pleasures elsewhere - folk, jazz, classical. But I kept going back to my 70s rock collection and by the late 80s realised it filled a musical space I liked that neither folk, jazz or classical could. So I started to fill in the gaps in what I knew I liked - I really got to know The Byrds and The Band then rather than in the 70s when I was only dimly aware of them. So it was only a matter of time before the Dead connected. There was a programme on the TV here a few nights back challenging the myth of the 'Sixties' in Britain. A bit of a right-wing foggies backlash but with some pretty wry observations (e.g. that Swinging London ceased to exist once you went a hundred yards from Carnaby Street or the King's Road). And that was my experience of the 60s and 70s - I enjoyed them as a young chap growing up but against a rather grey backdrop. Faultering economy, inflation, power cuts, unstable governments etc. Yet still I find myself drawn to the myth and will happily watch anything on TV or read any old recollection of the time. In some ways those Dead records sound like the Sixties and Seventies should have been. Maybe they were for some people. ********** Like so many great bands the Dead benefitted from having players from such different backgrounds - rock, blues, bluegrass and then Phil Lesh's contemporary classical studies. I think that helps explain their range. It is so easy to hear them as a bar room band. But as everyone has said above when they take of the music is as intricate as any jazz band. There are times when the endlessly unfolding jams remind me of the second Davis quintet. Not in instrumentation or even overall sound but in they way the music seems to be evolving and developing from all the players simultaneously. A far cry from the usual rock recipe of a rhythm section holding down a beat while a soloist plays on top. Another thing I find is their songs rarely get you on initial hearings. But then sometime down the line they just hook you. Very unusual constructions. I especially like things like 'Bird Song', 'Eyes of the World', 'Estimated Prophet', 'Terrapin Station' (completely weird in construction) and the 'Scarlet Begonias/Fire on the Mountain' pair. ******** I'm not too keen on those endless Pigpen blues rants on the earlier discs (a personal thing; I know they are regarded with great affection by many fans). And on the later discs the guitar and keyboards sound too processed for me to really enjoy them - but there are nice moments. But a great band nonetheless. And one it would be so easy to completely miss because what they seem on the surface only hints at what lies beneath.

Despite being an avid riock listener from 1970 the Dead passed me by. I tried a couple of the albums in the 80s - 'American Beauty' and 'Live Dead' but nothing clicked. And yet I had a nagging feeling there was something there. As music similar to that era dried up in contemporary rock I was longing to find a old seam to mine where there might be gold and I felt sure at some point the Dead would reveal it. Hearing Garcia on other albums - notably David Crosby's first solo album - made me sure there was something there for me. The disc that began to open it up was 'One from the Vault', a live set from around the time of 'Blues for Allah' that I borrowed from the library in the mid-90s. I then took the plunge on the 5CD box 'So Many Roads' set that features the instrumentals heavily. I think not having to plough through the dodgily harmonised cowboy songs helped me to connect. Some of the playing on those discs is stunning. One minute they're chugging along on a bar band boogie beat, next they've gone spacewards with the guitars and bass weaving around one another with incredible invention! Since then I've picked up a dozen or so of the live records (Dick's Picks and others) and the big Warners box. I'd agree that it's the live sets that really make them take off - why I even enjoy the dodgily harmonised cowboy songs now. And join in, making them even more dodgy. I go through Grateful Dead phases where I might play several sets in succession, overdose and then leave them aside for months. And then back I go again. I suspect part of the appeal is nostalgia. Nostalgia for an era I was contemporary with but never really part of.

I'm listed on the cover (LP)/booklet (CD) of Mike Westbrook's 'The Cortege' as a patron! This makes me sound like a wealthy aristocrat distributing my largesse. It actually means that at a concert by the band I paid for a copy before it was recorded, supposedly helping to finance the venture.

Referring to another thread, this seems the ideal way to cross:

I get this. I wish!

But that's not correct either. Great Britain is the island that includes England, Scotland and Wales. If you add Northern Ireland you get the United Kingdom. You're absolutely right! Officially it's "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". My mistake Well I've learnt something here. I'd always assumed Great Britain and the United Kingdom were different terms for the same political concept. Swing Swede is confirmed here: http://www.know-britain.com/general/great_britain.html

I love crossing bridges! That one looks stunning! My recent favourite comes on the crossing from Denmark to Sweden. You have to cross two bridges to connect to the main islands ofshore of the Danish Jutland peninsular and then you get this beauty, the Oresund, crossing The Sound, the historic entry point to the Baltic and dividing point between Sweden and Denmark since 1658. A wonderful experience. This is taken from Malmo on the Swedish side:

There's an excellent Surman discography here: http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8f4kf/surman.htm If you're not familiar with his post-late 60s recordings I'd urge you to hear 'Stranger than Fiction' on ECM. Much of his output is solo, solo playing against synth or in choral/chamber settings which probably doesn't appeal to many jazz fans. Personally, I love it. But Stranger is a marvellous quartet date. I saw Surman with John Taylor, John Marshall and Chris Laurence a couple of years back and it was astounding. Really high energy stuff. As good as the equally outstanding David Murray/Hamid Drake Quartet atbthe same festival.

Can I recommend...

I have Flying High. A nice 2CD highlights disc. I enjoy Gene Clark but can't say that he jumps out as an overlooked genius. Personally I find Gram Parsons on his two solos and the first FBB much more compelling.

And today...

I thought talking endlessly about the weather was a British affliction! The hot spell broke a bit today. Looks like its going to get more disturbed from now on:

That's what happens in pub discussions - even cyber-pub discussions. I actuallly think all of the six CD reissues are made stronger by the systematic attachment of contemporary singles, even if some are versions of the same song.

HEATHEN!!!!! Yup!

Have a look here for a Gordon Beck website with a ggod discography: http://www.enter.net/~rainsong/gordonbeck.html There was a thread about last years reissues from the 60s a few months back but I can't seem to get any joy out of the search engine!

Funny, because I don't hear much 'edge' on the first CSN album. There's much more, to my ears, on 'Deja-Vu', a far less perfect record. I do understand what you mean by the edge lying inside Joni Mitchell's music even if it might seem to be quite smooth on the surface. I suppose 'edge' is something I like in music some of the time but it doesn't have to be there all the time. Cloying sweetness all of the time I too find pretty unpalatable. But I don't feel a lack of edge to necessarily mean that music is deficient. And I think a fair bit of 'edge' in rock music is cosmetic. What I look for is ambiguity, asymmetry. This is quite interesting as it may explain the often extreme differences of view on ECM recordings. To those raised on the jazz mainstream ECMs output is often lambasted for its lack of 'balls'. Yet I've always been a great supporter of ECM. Its recording may not have the energetic 'edge' of Mingus or Roland Kirk; but in a quiet way they move in an ambiguous, asymmetrical world that has the same impact of defying expectations.

I'm probably talking through my socks on The Who as the only two whole albums I've ever listened to are 'Who's Next' and 'Tommy'. I've tended to hear them in individual tracks.

danasgoodstuff, I'd still say it's down to the alignment of your antennae. I understand the energy rush people get (got?) from 'The Who'. But I always found them a bit black and white in musical terms. Now I accept that ws probably the point - the no frills, reduced down to the bone approach, focussing in on the buzz. They rarely stray far from the rock/blues model. (You'll not be surprised that I've never really cared for the Velvet Underground!), But there's another way of hearing music. For me it's always been nice key changes, rich timbres and harmonies, breadth of instrumentation that has appealed most. A sense of going somewhere else. Which is why 'The Byrds' appeal to me more. Yes, there are clinkers on their albums and after 'Sweetheart of the Rodeo' I'm only really taken by a few tracks here and there. If anything there's too much ordinary rock from that point on. I'm not trying to say one is better than the other. I think they were just approaching music rather differently and will inevitably draw different supporters. Neil Young's an interesting point. He tried to do both! Sometimes on alternate albums, sometimes on the same album. In the end I'm happy that the 60s left us such a rich legacy of music that could encompass both approaches.

It's not been shown yet, Andy. This Wednesday!

I can see your point DrJ and you express perfectly why The Who appeal to you more than The Byrds. But I think that you are continuing a fallacy of rock music when you refer to them as 'tame'. The 'official' history of rock values the ragged and raucous in rock over the melodic and reflective. I've always felt that's little more than received opinion, probably encouraged by rock critics who idolise their (I suspect frequently mythical) wilder youth and find it hard to leave behind. There is another world of rock typified by The Byrds, Joni Mitchell, CSN&Y, Nick Drake, Fairport Convention etc that is equally valid. Now if it's that side that draws you most...and I fall into that category...then the deification of the 'bad boy' side of rock makes little sense. Of course many (most?) rock drew from both sides. I'd argue that they both have their value and preferences to either side will vary according to the listener. As a consequence a listener with a preference for one side is going to hear lasting value in that side; the other side will seem to have lost its lustre. [i tend to feel that the appeal of the rougher side of rock is not because it is more 'real'; more because it allows the largely law-abiding listening public to indulge in some frission that they wouldn't go near in real life.]