connoisseur series500

Thanks Chris for, er, taking over some of these poll responsibilities. I didn't vote because I don't know all the musicians. I will, however, be watching and learning.

Definitely agree with you here. Wes made about 6-8 cds on Riverside that were remarkably good and consistent. Great player.

So far mine is the lone vote for Bennie Green.

Hey Ed, Always wanted to know: how do you pronounce your last name? with a (k) or a (ch)?

Now will someone else set up a favorite alto player? favorite tenor? favorite trumpet? I can only take so much criticism for leaving people out!...

Forgot about Sonny Clark too until I had already established the poll. Another one of my favorites. Looks like Bill Evans is running away with it. No real surprise. I might have voted for him too; it's really a tossup between Tyner and Evans, in my book.

Yes, I did forget Django, but I consider him a different era; so maybe it was ok to leave him out.

This is a tough poll to be sure. I had to go with Green simply because he was one of the first BN artists I heard and was hooked thereafter. The other choices are terrific too. In retrospect, should I have left out Metheny and Scolfield and Abercrombie and exchanged them with Raney and Smith and someone else?

I voted for Big John. Nice to see Baby Face and Lonnie got a vote apiece. Who would vote for Baby Face? Don't see how he matches up to these other guys.

Of course, I said "from this list." That doesn't mean that good people aren't left out or that the winner becomes the greatest pianist or anything. you don't have to vote if you don't want to. Perhaps you'd like to check out another thread then.

Darn it! Jamal could have used the vote. I like him too. Well that's what you get by wanting to see what others did before voting.

This one ought to be interesting.... I left out Charlie Christian owing to the fact that he'd probably win the poll hands down. I've heard him only on one cd and the recording wasn't the best. I personally prefer the modern guys, but Charlie started it all.

This one should be easier than the pianist poll. Let's hear it all!

After sleeping on it, I decided to go with Tyner. (Damn it, Moose, stop thinking like me!) Bill Evans would have been a close second, and Herbie next. I felt that Tyner's work with Coltrane is so exquisite. Then he had a tremendously consistent career both as leader and sideman. In my opinion, he took a lot of Monk and Powell and he became a better finished product than either of them. Bill Evans is GOD too. Herbie is AWESOME but he loses points for going astray during the fusion years. Sorry to all the others; they're GREAT too. Moose, no Tyner as leader cds? Boy do you have a treat ahead of you. I like TIME FOR TYNER, INFINITY, THE REAL MCCOY, EXTENSIONS, NEW YORK REUNION, NIGHTS OF BALLADS AND BLUES, EXPANSIONS, LIVE AT NEWPORT, INCEPTION, REACHING FOURTH. I've also left out tons of good stuff here as well. God bless McCoy Tyner! (Hey, I'm starting to sound like wingy/deep)

The irony is that many BNBBs were joking about these kind of silly potentialities when the board was about to close. As it turned out, reality has trumped everyone. No one could have thought up such inanities ahead of time.

Oops, left out lots of people. I guess you could say the list has a hardbop emphasis. Tatum was earlier and so was Monk and Powell. At least I tried to name who played around the same time. I should have put Cecil Taylor in place of Tommy Flanagan, I think.

This poll is so ridiculously hard that I don't know if I can answer it myself. How do you compare great people like that?

Of course, I've left tons of people out; what can you do with just 10? I've tried to select people who played around the same time.

Definitely true; although we are talking about 138 years ago in regards to slavery. Ok, that's splitting hairs! I do admit that you make a strong point here. On another note, I wonder if years of Russian serfdom has affected the average Russian today. Serfdom in Russia ended with Alexander II, if my memory is correct and it occurred around the time that slavery was abolished in the US. It would make an interesting study.

Depends on whether I know that person or not.

Don't know if this is any answer, Jim, but although I am an immigrant to this country, I do feel I have an understanding about blacks in America. It is true that I wasn't here during the 60s when you met people who had ex-slave relatives still living, or could themselves remember much of Jim Crow days. That I cannot deny. But does this affect the current generation? It is interesting, because Caribbean blacks and some Africans also have a sense of fatalism and have difficulty maintaining a nuclear family. I don't know enough about the anthropology of Africa to know whether this is a function of multiple wives and a fatalistic approach to life. I have no real theories on the matter and will decline to state any opinions here. What I am not sure about is the effects if any of America's slave past on the current generations. Effects there could be, but that can only be conjecture. You obviously see the effects; I am personally unsure if I do. What I would like to know is this? Apparently, 89% of black kids are born out of wedlock to women aged between 15-25 years old. Was this the case, say in the 1940s or 1950s? How about earlier? If this were true then as well, then I would strongly support the thesis that slavery and its history of breaking up families and encouraging sexual profligacy and a sense of fatalism was the real cause. But if not, then I think we all need to look elsewhere for reasons. Another interesting fact is that apparently the literacy rate for Black Americans was much higher in the decades after the Civil War than it is today. Hmm, how does that fit in with the thesis of slavery maintaining a stranglehold on today's generations? I do not claim to have all the statistics, and I would like to hear from others who know more about the subject. How do we explain all this? I have another anecdote: when the PBS series "The Splendors of Africa" hosted by Harvard professor Gates (forgot his first name) was showing, I watched every episode totally fascinated by what was going on. He hit at Africans pretty hard for their large role in the slave trade, for their perceived barbaric customs, and for their continued practice of slavery today. I remember meeting with one of my African clients (from Ghana) and I asked with great enthusiasm whether she had been watching the shows. To my astonishment, she said she couldn't stand to watch it anymore as she felt that Africans were being lambasted. She also told me that black Americans seemed to hold some kind of grudge against her. Why? For her people's involvement with the slave trade. You mean they bring that kind of stuff up to you, I asked. Yes, frequently. Wow, there's a world I never knew or thought about. Things are complicated indeed.

No need to explain my pen name. The "500" was simply just a random number. My real name is Paul Maginley and my last name was probably originally McKinley or something. It's Scottish or Irish--I really don't know which nor care very much. My paternal great-grandparents were first cousins, and their name was Goodall. I imagine my real name should be Goodall for that reason. My mother came from Italy. You guys can call me Conn or Conn500 or Paul or whatever. Nice to know you all!

I've got only two Charles Lloyd cds, namely THE WATER IS WIDE, and THE CALL. I just purchased the latter and haven't yet formed any kind of opinion. The first cd however is wonderful music. I particularly like Brad Mehldau's work there. I would like to know what you all think of Lloyd, and which sessions are worth picking up. Thanks :rsmile:

Actually, I might have a decent idea of what it would be like. For one thing, I've been a minority and/or foreigner for most of my life. In Jamaica, I was a white minority as a boy. In the US, I was a foreigner with a funny accent as a boy. Since then my accent has disguised itself a bit better. In Thailand, I was a white minority in a homogenous country. Bottom line: it sucks when you're a kid; but then it becomes cool to be different once you are an adult. The disadvantage becomes an advantage and you actually become proud of your differences. Definitely sucks as a kid though with the peer pressure and the overwhelming need to come off as "cool."

May God bless them!! Warms my heart to hear it. :rsmile: