JSngry

To me, Someday My Prince Will Come & Seven Steps To Heaven are perfect compliments, the one making it perfectly clear why Miles couldn't keep making those types of of records, the other showing why the new records were going to have to be really new. The "narrative" gets complicated, perhaps, by all the live albums that were released during those years, but perhaps it actually gets uncomplicated because of them. All depends on how you frame the "narrative", if indeed you have to have one of those around to tell you to think what you think you're hearing. I have no problem whatsoever with considering Someday My Prince Will Come at once a great album and a lesser one. Because it is. Both. Oh, and the Trane thing, what I've always heard was that it was the title tune that had the Trane solo added on, that Trane showed up and Miles said, hey, let's get this going, so, title tune add-on end solo & Teo, then Trane split.

Two things, and I can't stress enough how I was just a relative beginner at this time, so whatever reactions I had and impressions I still have should take that into consideration. But... To play in that language with somebody who spoke it as fluently, deeply, and intuitively as Red did let to two things - first was a lack of tension in the accompaniment, harmonically or, especially rhythmically. There was no insecurity or quibbling about how it went, this was how it went. Related to that was the empathy of Red's comping. He had heard damn near everybody do damn near everything on these songs, so what you played, the language you were attempting to speak, he already knew what the options were, and knew what you were likely to say, probably before your yourself knew it. I know one time on "Satin Doll" (sic) I thought I was going to do a slick substitution, and DAMN, there was Red right there setting it up for me, leading me into it. Looking back, I was probably doing some "foreshadowing" in anticipation of doing that, but at the moment it was like, holy shit, ya' know? So I don't know if it "made" me play better. But it damn sure allowed me to play with less tension, less worries, etc. What it did was to let me play, period. Here you go, you got something to say, go ahead, tell us! And then, hey, then it's on you, clear road ahead, how much gas you got in the tank? You just going a block or two, but..you still gotta get there! And it really drove home to me how much of a true language music is, every type of it. Vocabulary, syntax, punctuation, everything. So if you're going to speak a language, learn the language. Don't just learn the words, learn the language. And by the same regard, know what you're saying, mean it, and never think that you've said it as well as you can, because language is infinite. So that's what I learned from playing a few tunes a few times with Red Garland. Everything I've learned since only compliments it, illuminates it, nothing has invalidated any of it. Like I said, a blessing. And the type of blessing that anybody who's had the same type of exposure to their "local heroes" has had. This business might often suck and be evil, and the people who are involved are quite often flawed individuals, but the music itself is sacred. Not just "this" music, the music.

Remotely possible, but very unlikely, and at most 3-4 tunes. I was just a minnow then (and in that world, still consider myself one, even though, what's left of it? Still...), and as such, respected the hierarchy and the etiquette, both of which were pretty basic - when Red was on the stand, you didn't sit in unless either you were a known, seasoned vet or, as for somebody like myself, invited by either a player already on the stand, or in advance by the Donellys (usually Jeannie). And should you be invited, you were expected to say your piece briefly and succinctly, get your lesson from what was going on all around you, and then get off to begin processing it all. This was not a workshop or a charity event, these were grownass men dealing with their business at a damn high level, ya' know? If you were ready to be treated as a full(er) peer, they'd let you know. Until then, pay attention, show respect, and keep learning. It was all cool off the stand (within expected boundaries, of course, respect was still expected to be shown and your credibility was not assumed), but on the stand...serious business, always serious business. About as serious as I've personally witnessed any business being conducted, including backroom poker games with pistols on the table. I cannot stress enough how blessed I felt, and still feel, to have been invited up to play just those few tunes with Red, both in terms of self-validation, and especially, to get a very real taste of what it felt like to play with somebody of that magnitude.

Yeah, that website is pretty, uh...un-alive. All the order links lead you to an Amazon "Lennie Tristano" search result page & Paris Jazz Corner.

I see the catalog popping up as new offerings at one of our Friendly Barcelonan Purveyors Of All Sorts Of Things...anybody know if a legit deal has been cut with the company, or is this more....you know?

Dr. Joseph Cribbins Mr. Crabbin Genevieve Crebbin

"lacerated" it is. http://books.google.com/books?id=1GRAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA256&lpg=PA256&dq=Remember+my+child,+I+am+incapable+of+drawing+aside+any+veil+you+may+have+preferred+to+drop+ove&source=bl&ots=ES0yXJxoBk&sig=gRhp2TYMaa372iJkdrBHsSxswnM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=R6hJVOO4H47msATp1IKwDQ&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Remember%20my%20child%2C%20I%20am%20incapable%20of%20drawing%20aside%20any%20veil%20you%20may%20have%20preferred%20to%20drop%20ove&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=B6vjoQcgReMC&pg=PA169&lpg=PA169&dq=Remember+my+child,+I+am+incapable+of+drawing+aside+any+veil+you+may+have+preferred+to+drop+ove&source=bl&ots=8N3UEvu3Au&sig=0BV8fHRU2YaKRJfVljqxBT_q1lQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=R6hJVOO4H47msATp1IKwDQ&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Remember%20my%20child%2C%20I%20am%20incapable%20of%20drawing%20aside%20any%20veil%20you%20may%20have%20preferred%20to%20drop%20ove&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=1vZ-OT1tFmsC&pg=PT377&lpg=PT377&dq=Remember+my+child,+I+am+incapable+of+drawing+aside+any+veil+you+may+have+preferred+to+drop+ove&source=bl&ots=f9FqgMUB1I&sig=hpRcZC39jwhtH_S5U7O1emBUGu8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=R6hJVOO4H47msATp1IKwDQ&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Remember%20my%20child%2C%20I%20am%20incapable%20of%20drawing%20aside%20any%20veil%20you%20may%20have%20preferred%20to%20drop%20ove&f=false etcc.

And Mark(?) At Verve.

Speaking of goofy...this DVD is goofy in the extreme, Wayne not afraid to play Rock Star, Carlos eager to play Humble Jazz Acolyte...but that's just the surface, the hook, the "image". Underneath it all, these motherfuckers are putting it out there for real (Armando Peraza FTW)...if more people took "show business" this seriously, hey...viable alternatives = fewer excuses, etc.

I think the point is that there's a difference between first-person absorption and any number of degrees removed "influence". With that I cannot disagree, although I'm not sure if it's at all relevant to liking Santana or not the way it would be liking lab-band-jazz and other things that get learned in an entirely different way/place than the source. But even at that, having seen both side of that coin, I've come to recognize the validity of any group of sincere people coming together and creating a musical "value system" of their own, even if they get it "wrong" relative to the source. It's valid within itself, and no matter how creepy I myself think it is (or, sometimes, isn't), hey, people do shit like that all the time, it's just the nature of the bea(s)t. Everybody eventually finds their home, or dies trying. I myself think that Santana's musics were, at one time (it's now kind of goofily self-referential, sometimes unfortunately self-parodical - see Supernatural - but people get old and they do that all the time as well, c'est la vie), a lot more of an organic synthesis of real-time absorptions than MG believed, and maybe still believes. Oh well, the guy speaks truly and deeply enough about enough other stuff that a disagreement like this will be grounds for a good discussion, but then, hey, back to reality and other assorted shit.

Before they ceased operations, Leaning House Records was said to have been set to release selected recordings of Red (and others) from The Recovery Room days. Lord knows, there was a treasure lode of them, the Donelly's recorded every set every night (or so it seemed) on 8-Track cartridges(!). We're talking about Red, James Clay, Marchel Ivery, various sitter-inners both national and local, and mostly from before the "comeback" days. Jazz in Dallas was never the same after that place shuttered. It has survived, but...different times... One of these archive-discovery labels like Elemental or Uptown owes it to themselves to get in touch with either Mark Elliot or Keith Foerster to see if they still have those tapes, and what condition they are in. As much as I will enjoy hearing Red w/Vinegar & Philly, I'd tentatively offer the last year or two of my life to hear Marchel, Clay, Red, Charles Scott, & Walter Winn on a hot night just one more time.

Speaking of a "Coltrane environment"...a whole lot of the Philly tenor players who came up with/around him have a certain quality to both their tone and time that is unique...people who know better than I say to give that credit to Jimmy Oliver. Benny Golson, Jimmy Heath, Bill Barron, who else...Bootsy Barnes from a later time, Odean Pope...there's a bunch of 'em. I thnk of it as more of a "regional accent" than an "individual environment" and that...opens up all kinds of options.

Don't overlook the Beach Boys & The Ray Conniff Singers! Or kill two birds with one stone and hit the Singers Unlimited!

When exploring the Rosario section, don't overlook Willie. Cat always had a great band! I adopted this as my mantra. It works.

Suppose while I should quit while I'm kind of ahead but... I can't really think of Santana's guitar sound as "rock"...even from the beginning. It's a pretty individual sound, really, with lots of personal elements in it (both technical and "flavor"). At one time widely imitated, but never duplcated, one of those type voices. To me, it's just Santana's sound, and it sounds organic in any number of "stylistic" settings. Can't say that I'm one of those Santana-Til-I-Die guys, I'm not, not even close and I think he's become sincerely mushy-headed over the years, but still, the guy's gotten a lot more done with a lot more quality and integrity than many, many people in most any idiom, and you know me, I'll give Lifetime Achievement Props where I think they're due, and this is one of those cases. Some people have a voice that is at once definitive of and wholly apart from whatever "genre" they're found in, and to me, Santana is one of those guys. His "content" may often be variable, but his "voice is pretty iconic, and not just in the lowest-common-denominator "pop" way. Besides, this is his tune... Whatever that is, I'm ok with it.

Clickable links per se are perfectly fine. It's what the link leads to that matters. Per forum rules: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules Since jazzmessenger.com appears to offer "regular" items, a link to their home page would be ok. However, linking to any specific items among their offerings which are certainly bootlegs by any definition (i.e. - audience/broadcast recordings released without full and proper clearances by all applicable parties) is disallowed. Note that discussion of such items is in no way discouraged.

Also - once you hire/bring into your family/etc. Armando Peraza as more than just window dressing, that immediately puts you into a pretty deep environment right there.

Well, whatever environments of influences got learned on the way to this, seems like they were learned in a way that took them to heart. Sounds good - and right -to me. And to the point that it created/synthesized/whatever an "environment" of its own, well, so it did.

Only, "moo-er" makes her sound like a cow.

We might have us a series!

On some of the earlier DVDS episodes the announcer pronounces her last name as "moo-er", then all of a sudden it turns into "more". What was up with all/any of that?

Welcome to all who want to smell like a man, as well as to those who don't.

Also - some of the most intensive R&B 45 collections in the world are in the hands of Hispanic Californians. That music still has its place in at least one element of that culture. Still. You can bet that Santana was not under-exposed or unappreciative of it in his formative years.

Think you might be underestimating all the ingredients that were available for the stew that was Santana's musical live moving from Jalisco to Tijuana to San Francisco. This isn't some guy who just woke up in Bill Graham's living room devoted to Coltrane and rock stardom. You can get as much grease in the barrio as you can in the ghetto, make no mistake, and plenty of people have cross-dined, believe me. Guess I'm saying your premise is a valid one in theory, but the theory itself is very likely not valid as applied to Santana's pre-Rock Stardom life. The next trip you make to North America should begin in coastal northern Mexico, and then go all the way up the west coast to Seattle, or at least to Oakland. Seriously.