JSngry

Suppose while I should quit while I'm kind of ahead but... I can't really think of Santana's guitar sound as "rock"...even from the beginning. It's a pretty individual sound, really, with lots of personal elements in it (both technical and "flavor"). At one time widely imitated, but never duplcated, one of those type voices. To me, it's just Santana's sound, and it sounds organic in any number of "stylistic" settings. Can't say that I'm one of those Santana-Til-I-Die guys, I'm not, not even close and I think he's become sincerely mushy-headed over the years, but still, the guy's gotten a lot more done with a lot more quality and integrity than many, many people in most any idiom, and you know me, I'll give Lifetime Achievement Props where I think they're due, and this is one of those cases. Some people have a voice that is at once definitive of and wholly apart from whatever "genre" they're found in, and to me, Santana is one of those guys. His "content" may often be variable, but his "voice is pretty iconic, and not just in the lowest-common-denominator "pop" way. Besides, this is his tune... Whatever that is, I'm ok with it.

Clickable links per se are perfectly fine. It's what the link leads to that matters. Per forum rules: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules Since jazzmessenger.com appears to offer "regular" items, a link to their home page would be ok. However, linking to any specific items among their offerings which are certainly bootlegs by any definition (i.e. - audience/broadcast recordings released without full and proper clearances by all applicable parties) is disallowed. Note that discussion of such items is in no way discouraged.

Also - once you hire/bring into your family/etc. Armando Peraza as more than just window dressing, that immediately puts you into a pretty deep environment right there.

Well, whatever environments of influences got learned on the way to this, seems like they were learned in a way that took them to heart. Sounds good - and right -to me. And to the point that it created/synthesized/whatever an "environment" of its own, well, so it did.

Only, "moo-er" makes her sound like a cow.

We might have us a series!

On some of the earlier DVDS episodes the announcer pronounces her last name as "moo-er", then all of a sudden it turns into "more". What was up with all/any of that?

Welcome to all who want to smell like a man, as well as to those who don't.

Also - some of the most intensive R&B 45 collections in the world are in the hands of Hispanic Californians. That music still has its place in at least one element of that culture. Still. You can bet that Santana was not under-exposed or unappreciative of it in his formative years.

Think you might be underestimating all the ingredients that were available for the stew that was Santana's musical live moving from Jalisco to Tijuana to San Francisco. This isn't some guy who just woke up in Bill Graham's living room devoted to Coltrane and rock stardom. You can get as much grease in the barrio as you can in the ghetto, make no mistake, and plenty of people have cross-dined, believe me. Guess I'm saying your premise is a valid one in theory, but the theory itself is very likely not valid as applied to Santana's pre-Rock Stardom life. The next trip you make to North America should begin in coastal northern Mexico, and then go all the way up the west coast to Seattle, or at least to Oakland. Seriously.

Ok, I'll bite - what kind of "different world" are we supposing that Santana lived in so as to have him "never being in a position" to be aware of Pat Martino/Azzara and therefore likely Willis Jackson, or Soul Jazz in general?

In 1971, in the dyas when you could just put on one side of a record and play it over and over and over, anybody who began an album side with this and ended it with this: without putting any bullshit in between was gonna be ok with me, and largely, still is.

Just finished going over the original owner's manuals as well as all subsequent service bulletins and nowhere is it as much as implied that a critique of a record review must or even should be in the form of an alternate record review, especially when the record review being critiqued contains so damn little reviewing of the record of itself in lieu of a boorish, turdish smuggery of the sort generally borne from clipped-wing tools gladly being so toolclipped and then flexing their grounding in celebration thereof.

You call it corn...

Carmen Dragon Carmen Lombardo Carmen Vincent

What Mark De Clive-Lowe did with the Rotterdam Jazz Orchestra on Take The Space Train, is, I think, one of the most interesting big band records in a good many years, like, a 70s fusion record only with drum machines and a real, live big band with real section players and fluent soloists, and a pocket that is broken-beat in nature. I can hear the cringing , but for those who aren't hey, it's a combination of known ingredients that when blended together take on a character that is uniquely its own, like, ok, fusion, drum machines, and big bands, not dead ends after all!

Electric bass? These days, Gene Perez. Not that long ago, Sal Cuevas. What about this thing?

"Slippin' Into Darkness"...that groove hasn't had a chance to age, because it's hasn't stopped yet! And this John Morales guy did one of the most...understanding remixes I've ever hear, doesn't really change anything, just spreads it out more and lets it groove even longer. It's a groove you can't kill, can not kill it. Now some might say, well, that's not really "Latin", and no, it's not. But if you take the "Latin" out of it, what do you have? You don't have that, that's for sure, and that is what you want to have!

To Mary or to Laura? Or to "Mary"? It's complicated, until its not, and then its soooo simple.

Caravanserai is one of my "best records ever, by anybody, with Borboletta running neck and neck. Hell, on some days, I like Borboletta a lot more. But don't "decide" about Santana until you're lived with one or both for a while. The "popular" Santana stuff sounds dated (but still great" to me, but as albums, they're an easy listen. The first two being truly classic "Classic Rock", the third one actually inching towards great. But Caravanserai and Borboletta, whew, that was a zone there. Lotus is in that same area, but it's a lot to listen to if you're not sure about that kind of thing. El Chicano, yeah, they were nice. But they didn't have the juice that Santana had, which is not a value judgement, just an observation.Santana had Big Idea,s and the arch from the first album through Borboletta is pretty damn impressive in their realizations (Welcome kinda pisses me off though, way to much sheen, they're forcing the point, and no sir, I don't like it, not one bit). After that, they decided that slumping sales mattered after all and came back between the lines. Not bad, really, just...you had to really want to be a fan to be a fan, if you know what I mean. Two other bands of the same basic ilk you might find interesting are Malo (Carlo's brother was in that one) & Azteca. Malo, overthe years, held enough of a fan base of the contrarian "yeah, Carlos is good, but Jorge's BETTER!" ilk, and well...I don't know about that, but they were too good to not be investigated at least a little, ok? And Azteca...lots of interesting people in that band, lots of interesting music too, and if the albums were victims of over-production, well, sometimes you just gotta hear between the lines to get past the record and into the music. Another thing that maybe gave El Chicano a different flavor was that they were from L.A.. Santana (as well as Malo & Azteca) were out of the SF/Oakland area, which produced a lot of bands that combined a lot of elements. It wasn't all psychedelia! El Chicano...are you into War at all, post-Eric Burdon? That's a more L.A. flavor too. War albums like The World Is A Ghetto and All Day Music are remarkably consistent listening experiences, they weren't just a singles band (although they were that, too, and a damn good one). Lighter, but still substantial, and still with an unmistakably "Latin" thing going on along with everything else.

This is a remarkable photo, I think, of MTM taking a break from being Laura Petrie, on set, in color. It definitely looks like MTM, not Laura Petrie, and there is a world of difference. I think she's beautiful here, but she's definitely not Laura Petrie, although in a few minutes, she was probably going to go back to being her. http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbwhryD5hL1qcra2do1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJP67HANH6OVWEMMQ&Expires=1414016256&Signature=TMiLibzo0ZDYN%2Brbo4zBSlqPYH0%3D#_=_

Sue Ane Langdon Sue Ann Nivens Sue Anne Rische

Not MTM, Laura Petrie. MTM is somebody else, it seems, although not without flashes of Laura Petrie. MTM is probably a pretty complex creature. She (MTM) was brilliant in Ordinary People, I thought, but so was Dexter Gordon in 'Round Midnight, if you know what I mean. All speculation of course.

Ornery Cuss Honoré Dutrey Oona Chaplin

Did have socks on.