JSngry

Songs? Really? Still?

It's not a battery if they're on opposing teams. It's also not a battery unless there's an actual game being played, I mean Koufax & Roseboro weren't a batttery when they were in the shower or when they were crossing the street, so c'mon, a little Hot Stove lattitude here, please! Ok, Rookie Of The Year "batteries": 1968 Stan Bahnsen - New York Johnny Bench - Cincinnati 1970 Thurman Munson - New York Carl Morton - Montreal 1972 Carlton Fisk - Boston Jon Matlack - New York That's it.

Yeah! Have either of these ever happened, much less both?

It's half about Buster Posey - 2010 National League Rookie of the Year. The other half is about: http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101115&content_id=16099572&vkey=news_tex&c_id=tex When was the last time a battery combined to win ROTY awards?

Uhhhh....

DOH! My bad, big time.

Then again, most tunes, especially "jazz originals" have "typical" keys, and when an entire album (such as this one) varies from those keys by half a step, it's probably safe to assume that either the speed is off or else somebody in the band was spending the night issuing/accepting a challenge... I mean, "Well You Needn't" in F#? In 1955 (or earlier)? Not....likely... Bootleggers/Pirates usually don't know or care about proper pitch, and don't/can't be bothered with fixing it when it appears. Their only interest is a hit-and-run getting the product out there.

I know it's not exact science of course, yes. I'm no good in determining the pitch offsets, but if I get exact information, I can do such fixes - it's indeed pretty easy. The Miles in Amsterdam 1957 set with Barney Wilen is another one that suffers from wrong speed, btw. It's a not uncommon problem. Either the original recorder speed was off, or, I suspect, the tapes had been frequently played over the years & had stereched just enough to affect pitch on playback.

You're right, there's no argument here, just a general statement of general opinion-as-fact, which would be ok if stipulated to as such, but to this point hasn't been.

Larry's original thread was probably deleted for "business" purposes (let's just not provide a link & see how it goes from here on out)...and I don't remember if it's exactly a half step, but it's pretty darn close to it if it's not. You can never be exactly sure about club dates like this, given the conditions of pianos, players natural intonations, etc, but you can get a general pitch center for the tunes, and in this case, slowing it down about a half step will fix it. 20 or so years ago, having a variable speed turntable made fixing it a piece of cake. Not sure what the digital fix is, but it's probably even easier. And it needs to be done.

The album as you describe it would have probably ultimately (albeit a few years earlier) been better suited for Bobby Darin...

Exactly. They mean nothing w/o a point of reference, which ideally should included not just "other examples", but other examples of similar material written for similar situations & similar characters that are decidedly not forced and awkward, and for bonus points, should work towards proving that "forced" and "awkward" are not at least some part of the point. Your move, with or without Google.

Ok, but that's still a half-step too high as well.

Should we then consider that Sondheim should not be judged in terms of "popular song", since that is no longer the mien in which he is deigned himself to be working? I'm ok with that myself. It relieves a lot of people of a lot of responsibilities that they'd probably be happier not having.

But for years, I have put on a shirt and tie to go to work at tinyurl. What now of me?

Checked the Amazon samples. Still a half step high.

JZ ended up in Dallas; spent quite a few years here & became the stuff of legend. A true character, musically & personally! I've had this for quite a while now on a tape dub made from the Fresh Sounds LP. Reviewing my notes, I see that I made a notation that the LP presented music that was in need of pitch correction, so I slowed the turntable down in order to do so as much as possible. I only hope that this new version has made the same correction.

No dude, you're just getting old and forgetting stuff. Happens to me hourly. On good days...

Did I say that? Don't think so...

http://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2010/11/james-mtume-v-stanley-crouch/66462/

What does that mean, in a totally objective sense?

Did you make the mistake of thinking that being utterly vulgar & archly poetic were mutually exclusive?

I think the Red album is "official" too, just not American in origin.

Do you guys still have any doubt that the dream as we knew it is gone for good? Which is not to say that there's no room for dreams, or even new versions of the old dream, just that this one is finito, history, O-ver.