JSngry

See, this is what about this all being just a little obsessive. I mean. I was alive then, I bought magazines, I read interviews, I remember what was said about the subject. I doubt very seriously that I kept those magazines (although anything's possible), and....it's like you don't want to be lieve it. Why noit? Do you think I just pull shit like this out of my ass? Try looking in People, Time, Newsweek, & Rolling Stone for starters. Somewhere in 1982-84. Look for any talk having to do with how unusual it is for a late night talk show to have a rock band instead of a then-traditional big band. Probably not all of those magazines will have quires, but I promise you that some of them will. If you need to find it so bad, go find it then. Me, I've been there, read that, and don't need to go hunting for it again. In the meantime, say hi to Margaret.

Dude, forget the "forums" - go back and read all the old interviews from when the show was new and hot (there are plenty). Dave lets it be known that jazz was something that he had no personal use for. It's there, more than once, and in his own words. And to that I say big whoop. More to the point...wtf difference does it make if this "myth"/"false argument" exists or not? What little bit of difference in any but the most isolated world will it make? Ok, so you disprove the "myth". Then what? Really - then what? Seems a little bit...out there if you ask me.

The Incognito has a guest spot by Ursula Rucker, & Raphael Saadiq produced the Clouds (which could be a really good thing or....not). The ritual trio lineup more than speaks for itself.

For those who like to buy new stuff, the latest Pi release is a gem, as were the two prior to it. Threadgill's music has consistently be an ongoing orgasm for people like me who like to hear drummers...in the music. Don't know that I've ever heard a Threadgill record where the drumming is anything less than distinctively outstanding.

I've watched - and enjoyed - Letterman since his debut show taking over from Tom Snyder in 1982. It was a "big deal" then that he had a "rock" band as house band, and yeah, he made no secret of the fact that, no, he really didn't care for jazz. At all. That was almost 30 years ago. Of course he's had some jazz (and "jazz") on since then. And why shouldn't he? He's white, late-middle-aged, and fairly well off. Perfect jazz demographic these days! I mean, really, I kinda understand Dale's "beef", but ultimately I think it's so much pissing in the wind. But this...aggressiveness in defending Letterman, as if to paint him - or his show - as a reasonable "supporter" of jazz on his show, as if he's a suspect human being if in fact he really doesn't like jazz (or even hates it) I mean, what the fuck is that all about? Where outside the hyper-insular world of the hyper-insular "jazz fan" does a thought like that even begin to be fomented? Y'all some deluded-ass motherfuckers if you think that this even begins to matter anywhere else except JazzWorld.

Is this representative?

Another example why hardly anybody gives a fuck about either New York City or jazz anymore.

Shia LaBeouf Beowulf The Babes of Baywatch

No, that's Doris Day.

Sir Walter Gilbey Alexander Gordon Charles Tanqueray

That's June Christy.

Bob Allison Jim Katt Zolio Versalles

Dock Ellis Vernon Law Joseph Smith

And then what?

That makes more sense. Then again, in a state of some kind of freedom, life itself is an ongoing act of creativity and criticism. The main thing is to do, Whatever it is.

Furman Bisher = Hank Aaron then. I like that a lot.

So Hank Aaron = Furman Bisher? I don't think so. "Parallel" & "equal" are different things. That's why we have Oscars & Emmys.

The thing that makes Pense unique to me is the lack of, for lack of a better term, "markers" in her lines. Most white people (not just women), when they try to work in a "black idiom" (which only sometimes equates to "trying to sound black", that's a sucker's game to be sure, but lord knows the world is full of suckers...) just can't get that phrasing to flow from Point A to Point B without leaving a lot of "markers" along the way. Pense doesn't do that, never did, at least on records (which is all I know) and actually has gotten better at it over the years. In this regard, I find her very unique in her niche, very unique indeed. That said, she doesn't "sound black", becuase her movements are far more rooted to the straight 4 time underneath her than what is popularly recognized as a "black feel" in popular music. But then again, and this is just my speculation, maybe it's the fact that she's never tried to break out of/away from that that allows her to flow so smoothly within her own zone. It's when shit gets forced that it starts to smell funny... And fwiw, anecdotally, I've known far more African-American musicians who dig Cold Blood in general (and Pense in particualr) than have dug Joplin at any point. What that proves, exactly, is....nothing. But I've hears a lot of respect for Pense from people who otherwise cut no slack towards people who have worked the same field. Now, timbrally, no, she is not as unique as Joplin. But I would encourage anybody who is interested to revisit her work and listen to her singing for things other than timbre. It's there that her uniqueness becomes quite apparent, at least to me. I'm become convinced that listening to singers is quite often more challenging than listening to instrumentalists. Maybe it's because I can't sing worth a damn, or maybe it's just because I've lived in an instrumental world and thought instrumentally damn near my entire life. But....I'm just sayin'...

I guess we have different opinions/concepts/whatever of what "sounding black" is. I don't think that either Joplin or Pense "sound black" at all - or that either are trying to. Going into a style and trying to sound as if one is speaking as a member of a different race are two radically different concepts, and I see no indication that either woman was naive enough to think otherwise. I do think that Joplin forced things too much for my taste, damn near always, and that Pense wasn't forced at all - and that she's gotten even more better with the passage of time. Joplin's dead, so....Game Over on that opportunity. I've seen Festival Express (more than once, actually) and the post-Big Brother bands are a lot "better" (if not as eccentrically organic) , which makes Joplin sound "better", and I don't question her sincerity one iota, but at the end of the day, her drama is not mine, and she just doesn't sing well enough to make me want it to be. Mileages can, will, and should vary on that one.

Jim, you're still alive?? I thought you died from a heroin overdose years ago!! A popular misconception. It was a heron overdose. Quiet as it's kept, those sucker are the fugu of the ornithological world. And it was a near-overdose, obviously. What kept me from walking through death's door? Watching a Letterman show, believe it or not. Bird died while laughing, I escaped death while doing the same. How many layers of irony are there in that?

Chips & dips!

No, I won't. You have no history here that would earn you that kind of trust. Lots of people (actually, most people) don't like or understand jazz. You've obviously got a chip on your shoulder to claim that someone "passionately HATES jazz". Speaking bluntly, put up or shut up. Or at least contribute positively to another thread. Hey man, I've known Dale for a couple of decades now. He's got one of the least chippiest shoulders I've ever encountered, so chill out on that, ok? You're just wrong.

Good records, start anywhere. They're all aimed at their audience, and their aim is true always.

Hal Blaine's drums were the only instrument that Phil Spector never doubled/tripled/quadrupled/etc in his pursuit of The Wall Of Sound. Hal Blaine could - and did - ride that horse & drive that bus all by himself. Anybody not familiar, research The Wrecking Crew. Them folks defined a time, a place, a sound, and a people.