JSngry

Hey, most jazz isn't jazz anymore either. The "suits" will be in their element!

Unless you read the inter-testamental literature that survives, especially The Book of Enoch. That literature, and that book in particular (perhaps the defining work for setting the stage of the millieu in which Jesus stepped up to the plate, so to speak), gives a very good picture of how things evolved in the Jewish community both socially and spiritually, and why everybody was so hot for a Messiah to appear. Traditional Christianity tends to teach that the Jews of the time were merely looking for an "earthly king". Well, hey, it was a lot more that that in some circles. Let's just say that the Apocalyptic fervor that grips the most extreme of today's zealots of all faiths ain't nothing new... This is the stuff that "official" Christianity doesn't encourage their people to read (excepting the Catholic church's inclusion of a few of these writings in The Apocrypha), and the stuff that it seems that a lot of Jews regard as totally irrelevant to the events described in the first three Gospels. But in my opinion, it's essential to an understanding of it all, regardless of one's personal beliefs. We tend to think of the OT as "Point A" and the NT as "Point B". But in reality, the NT is "Point C". A lot of things happened between the end of the OT and the beginning of the NT. A lot. The various inter-testamental writings are the true "Point B". They're not going to be of interest to anybody whose beliefs are set-in-stone dogmatic, but for anybody with an open mind and an intellectual curiosity (regardless of their faith or lack thereof), they make for some illuminating and fascinating reading.

Again - look to the Essenes. Lon's done a lot more research into these type things than I have, and we have somewaht different conclusions, but I think that we can both agree that an understanding of what was going on in the Essene community around the time of Jesus' reported life is crucial to an understanding of the general climate that resulted in the earliest birthings of Christianity. It was a turbulent time, they were some turbulent people, and what they and many of the very earliest Christians (who may very well have been looking at it all as a new form of Judaism) were all about probably has little if anything to do with post-Pauline Christianity. Between Paul, Constantine, I feel safe in saying that doctrinal "Christianity" as it has come to exist is based on the historical Jesus in much the same way that Presidents Day sales are based on George Washington & Abraham Lincoln. You can get some great deals, and it keeps the name and ideals in the public eye, but...

Again, I suggest you read Theiring. These conflicting geneologies have "Essene" written all over them. You really should read Theiring, unless you're dead-stuck on the notion that "Jesus" never existed in any form. And if that's the case, this is nothing more than a parlor game. And you can do better than that.

Suzanne Vega is a not uninteresting talent. Rooster's point is a good one though - if they were signing artists like this to "subsidize" their less profitable yet worthy (or more) acts, I'd be a lot happier. Still, Suzanne Vega is a not uninteresting talent.

The "claims" of Jesus about himself, as opposed to his teachings about the nature of the spiritual life, are few and far between, actually. Is Jesus himself ever quoted in the Bible as making such a claim?

Well, yeah, sure, some, but.... You'd be surprised how many "real" Christians have reached similar conclusions. And there's suggestion that many early Christians were of a similar bent. So it's not a new notion by any means. It's just one that was not codified during the corporate takeover back in the day. Again, oh well... I'm a bit rusty on this, but I believe that there's two geneologies of Jesus in the Bible, and there are subtle discrepancies between the two. There's a possibility that this is related to some kind of conflict within the Essene community. The role the Essenes played in the life of Jesus is certainly an unprovable point of contention in some circles, but the writings of Barbara Theiring (which I've recommended to Alexander before) are certainly worthy of review and consideration regardless of the final conclusion one reaches after same.

Lon's got the maternal geneology angle right, but that still leaves the issue of paternity wide open. My church(es) - I've been both Lutheran & Methodist in my church-belonging life - don't really deal with it, which is why I'm kinda like yeah, ok, whatever when i come to that kind of trip. The answer I formulated for myself a long time aqo is a simple one - we're all children of god. Whether you regard "god" as a specific being or a general abstract representation of the unifying life-force that runs throughout creation, we all come from it. Therefore, yeah, Jesus is the son of god. But so am I, and so are you. The Biblical Jesus came into a specific geo-political dynamic, and his story as related in the Bible is definitely told through that lens. The "messiah" thing is all about that. People were waiting at the time, people were waiting in the aftermath, ande some people are still waiting. And these are the people who told (and still tell) the story. Jesus came, dropped some science, and then split. He didn't leave any memoirs. So, really, the NT is an interpretation, not a history. I take it as such, even though that's sort of a "non-traditional" form of Christianity. Oh well...

That sounds plausible, reasonable, and fair. But the wording seems to leave open some potentially unsavory loopholes, no?

You Bastards! You Guys Y'all

http://the-light.com/mens/samson/4/samson.html

Received via layers of forwarded (I know who Billy Bragg is, but can honestly say that I've never knowingly heard his work) e-mail:

Begpardon?

Morrow Cronkite Rather

Lame.

Gazoota!

Inefficient!

Unfortunate.

Bummer.

Outstanding!

Tragic.

Purdie's contrribution to the lone recording by Bleeding Gums Murphy is one of his finest moments.

The Castaways The Hathaways Donny & Lalah

Not if it meant not having to live in De-"Watch It Die Before Your Eyes"-troit. We don't have that problem in Dallas, It's always been fucked up here.

That's a damn good question.