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I think the "Then what?" might be found in the music that many people are playing, now. And you can't get that from a single 2-minute clip. I agree with you completely on the "creeps me out" bit about re-enactment, etc. fwiw, the Carolina Chocolate Drops' name comes from the Tennessee Chocolate Drops... a black string band. One of the Armstrong brothers (whose band it was, along with Carl Martin) is Howard, aka Louie Bluie. There's a movie about him, and a soundtrack on Arhoolie, etc. - none of that was available in the 70s, and neither were some of the more recent comps I was referring to. You had to own the actual 78s to get the music (in many cases) until quite recently. Check the Smithsonian Folkways black banjo comp. for some of that (rare) music. The Document series on black string bands has some very hard-to-find material as well, and it goes far beyond Appalachia and Memphis... (As a former resident of the Piedmont region, I guess I'm a little bit defensive when it comes to Piedmont blues and other musical forms from the area - because so many blues fans discount it, for one, also because I got to hear some of the older performers live.) Edited to add: what you knew in the 70s is real news to a lot of people who are a bit younger than you. * There's a newer doc on Howard Armstrong, titled "Sweet Old Song": http://www.leahmahan.com/films/sweet-old-song (Not sure if there's a soundtrack for it, though...)

Re. "otherness," that's not what it is... at least, the people who are playing the music say it's about reclaiming certain kinds of music, and certain instruments for themselves, now. Lotsa history behind black Americans playing dance music on fiddle; banjo coming from a variety of W. African plucked-string instruments (including a wide variety of spiked lutes); even W. African fiddles, though those are very limited (musically) compared to violin and viola. Dena J. Epstein's book Sinful Tunes and Spirituals is a great place to start re. accounts of antebellum African American music of various kinds. And there are a number of good recordings of - and books on - the subject of black American banjo, fiddle, etc. players, music - the works.

The Ebony Hillbillies were busking in the NYC subway in that clip. I think they play old-time music because they enjoy it - just like other people who play in that style (or any other you could name). Agreed on the whole "back to the roots"/recapturing the past thing as well. I don't understand the whole "living history" movement all that well (Civil War re-enactors, the works), but that's fairly tangential to this thread. (Although there certainly are musicians involved in both, just as there are lots of musicians who dress up in costumes and play the whole Renaissance Faire circuit, or who are regulars on the Society for Creative Anachronism's festival/"war" equivalent of same.)

And Mahler's Mahler, for that matter... or Chopin's students' recordings of his works (Welte-Mignon piano rolls, anyone?) or... the possibilities are endless.

fwiw, I think the "dress it up in racial drag" comment *is* a deliberately provocative, even insulting, comment - though I'm sure that all of the members of the Chocolate Drops have heard that (and much worse) ad nauseam by now. I don't need to listen to - or read - that kind of thing, though.

Allen, I had no intention of insulting you or anyone else, let alone getting into a debate on so-called middle class posturing. Bev started a thread about contemporary music ("rootsy" stuff) and I responded. I think people who investigate the past can and do come to different conclusions about it (as well as the present) and that's just fine. Here's my point: I'd much rather go and listen to some well-played music (old or new or something in-between)than argue about its supposed authenticity. The Chocolate Drops are very talented musicians, as is Otis Taylor (and as are all the musicians on his "Recapturing the Banjo" disc), and... somehow, the sheer joy that is produced by their investment in the music outweighs all the other concerns that have been mentioned. I play music (personally, as a musician) because I love to play it, because it brings me a kind of contentment (and joy, too) that I've found in nothing else. I need to play. The Chocolate Drops seem to be kindred spirits in that respect, so I'm responding in kind. If the passion and joy isn't there, music is dead. And - since I hear passion and joy and love in the Chocolate Drops' music, and in Taylor's, and in The Ebony Hillbillies' - I'll play it and dance to it and just generally have a good time. I think that's one of the things they have in mind, or at least, that they all hope to bring to those who listen to them. like I said earlier - peace! s. Edited to add: as Bev said above, people want to see and hear (and maybe dance to) live music made by living musicians. I'm definitely in with that crowd.

To be honest, I don't see what that has to do with anything, Allen. So we part ways there, as elsewhere, right? peace, s.

To add to what Bev said, I'm sure that all of the members of the Chocolate Drops would tell you that they were raised in the "middle class," so... I don't think they're embarrassed about their personal roots; in fact, that's probably a non sequitur for them as far as making music is concerned. @ Bev: their latest (Genuine Negro Jig) is something you'd really enjoy, I think. (And no, they're not paying me to say nice things about them!) For me personally, it's what performers like Taylor and the Drops do with the source material - plus whatever else they bring to it (which is quite a lot!) that counts.

I'm in - a download, please, good sir!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, imo. Nobody has to like any musician or group. But people might come to differing conclusions regarding source material and history, no? And tastes, too, insofar as that counts for anything. I don't think the Chocolate Drops are aiming for the kind of sound that The Ebony Hillbillies are... and I think that's not only understandable, but just fine - not "fake." They come from very diverse backgrounds and I don't think they've ever presented themselves as intending to play in an "authentic" style (whatever that might be). Nobody's mentioned Otis Taylor's "Recapturing the Banjo" yet, have they? (fwiw, Taylor also plays mandolin...) Yep - nice album!

There's also NYC's own Ebony Hillbillies...

At the risk of being slightly redundant, I'm happy to hear some fresh, contemporary approaches to American "folk" music. And I don't really care if the musicians performing the material sound like they came from the 1920s - in fact, I'd much rather they didn't! We're here now, and I think people performing in these styles have every right to blend whatever they see fit in order to create their own music. [/rant]

My new faves, the Carolina Chocolate Drops, with their interpretation of Blu Cantrell's "Hit 'Em Up Style": @ Allen L: I guess you haven't heard of the Black Banjo Gathering? The members of the Chocolate Drops could school you on their antecedents, and that's not hyperbole. They know a lot. (History, repertoire, the whole deal.) And they've all studied with one of the only living black fiddlers from the Piedmont area... They may be, to some extent, "folk revival," but if so, they're nothing like what came from the old folk revival. Apologies for the video quality here, but the audio is just fine - the piece is "Snowden's Jig (Genuine Negro Jig)" - See the book Way Up North in Dixie for more info. on the possible origin of this piece, as well as some of the history of the Snowden Family Band. That strikes me as not only an ungenerous comment ("playing the race thing"), but untrue. As for their attitude toward the music, performance and more, I think you'd be surprised. They really are the last group I'd expect to see "playing the race card." (As for the novelty thing, well - go see them live and see if you think that judgement holds up. )

Yep! I love "Blues goes to Mali on a no 7 bus." a "yes" from my personal Amen corner! I do think that pieces like the one in the CSM make it that much harder for African musicians to really gain an audience in the West that appreciates them and their work for what they are (as opposed to what they aren't). But the interesting thing is, a lot of W. Africans who have nothing to do with record promotion and sales are now using the phrase "desert blues" to describe certain kinds of music from northern Mali, also Niger. I love it, because they're literally taking a PR person's "brainwave" marketing idea and using the words in ways the Western PR people never suspected possible. A kind of cultural re-appropriation if ever there was one, in a highly positive sense! Edited to add: great interview with Malian historian/music fan Cherif Keita - he's one of the people using "desert blues" in a different way, here: http://afropop.org/multi/interview/ID/171/Cherif%20Keita%20on%20the%20history%20and%20music%20of%20Mali He even talks about Ali Farka Toure being a person of mixed heritage (including Tuareg), and of his music as being a fusion of diverse styles from the north of Mali. to my mind, that's far more on point than some of AFT's wilder pronouncements, as in: This comes from an interview Banning Eyre did with Ali Farka Toure when was on tour in the US, back in 1991. The bolding of the final sentence is mine; all other emphases are Eyre's. I think that final sentence is just unbelievably dismissive of American music and musicians. (not that the rest of the quote isn't, but that sentence takes the cake and then some!!!)

I think that was Cat Stevens, maybe?

Here's a vid. from one of her French gigs (mentioned above, somewhere). The other vocalist is Ami Sacko. (She's married to ngoni player Bassekou Kouyate.) The song is "Demissenw/Children Go Round." Not sure who wrote "Demissenw," but it's either Ami or Bassekou, and was (I think) already part of Ngoni ba's book prior to their collaboration with Dee Dee b. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUCOU9vteCA

I saw her live with a group of musicians from Mali shortly after this CD was released. It was a very powerful concert. I had not heard any music like it. Lucky man! I so wish I'd been able to catch one of their gigs (meaning the whole band, not just Dee Dee!) Interestingly enough, I found out about this project on an African music board. Ptah, you would probably love Bela Fleck's "Throw Down Your Heart" album and film. he's touring right now, with some of the musicians who collaborated with Bridgewater; most notably Bassekou Kouyate and Ngoni ba. I missed their only area gig last week, due to high tkt prices and my shrinking pockets.

Paul Oliver's Savannah Syncopators is really good, too - another book that nobody seems to talk about much - or read - anymore.

yes... i agree (about record sales and much more). I think the various interactions are far more complex than any of us could ever begin to imagine, let alone fathom! Maybe it goes without saying, but I do think the fact that we're so monolingual has caused us to become isolated from the rest of the W. hemisphere, in terms of both influences and seeing larger patterns and interactions at work. I know that The Magnificent Goldberg has written lots of good stuff about the back-and-forth between Senegal and Cuba on other threads, though I don't have the links handy at the moment.

Nice! You can embed videos here, using the "insert media" option (in the center right when you've hit reply, a few stops to the right of the emoticon tag). not sure if you need to cut the "http://" part or not using this particular board software or not. (On some boards, it's necessary.) I did try to post the HTML tags for video in this reply, but they didn't show. (Oh well.)

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I thought some actual music might be helpful here. Ali Farka Toure, performing in northern Mali not long before his death - Oumou Sangaré (from Wassoulou, in southwest Mali near the Guinea border) and Ali Farka Toure - he's doing the takamba dance, from northern Mali -

There are KKK-like costumes - in that they feature pointy hat-hoods that cover the entire head and face - in Cuba, in the abakwa (also abacua) secret society (which is African and still exists in Nigeria, where it's called Ekpe; it's also here in the US, in NYC and Miami), and I've seen some photos of Afro-Puerto Rican "devil" costumes for carnaval that also look very similar - trombonist William Cepeda, who lives in NYC, would be able to fill in the blanks, I'm sure. (And there are groups of penitentes in Spain who have processions during the week before Easter, dressed in costumes that look *exactly* like Klan robes, although they have cut-out eye holes, like ghost costumes made from sheets. I think who influenced whom there is open to debate!) So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised about that at all, nor about Southern speech having been affected very intensely by slaves. (Brazilian Portuguese is very different than Portuguese from Portugal partly because of the influence of the African languages that slaves spoke, and that are still used in some Afro-Brazilian religious and secular traditions - the difference being that Brazilians are open about this, to the point of boasting about the country and people being an amalgam of Africans, Natives and white people... very different than here, on the whole. They have their own problems with racism, but their society never was like Anglo-America, in terms of the "one drop" rule, institutionalized racism, etc. - and intermarriage was/is not uncommon, even from the earliest days of the colony.) I'd guess the language thing is similar to the impact Yiddish has had on modern American English, in some ways. Thanks again for your help - and yeah, I'm suspicious of the hardliners on both sides of this debate. Ali Farka Toure was very much of the "it's purely African" school of thought, although he was basing that mainly on recordings, rather than travel here and direct contact with black American musicians, blues and otherwise. (Though he might well have met/heard black American musicians while on tour in Europe.) Banning Eyre (author of In Griot Time) has even quoted AFT as claiming that all blues music came from one specific place in northern Mali. So while I admire AFT's music, and I can see his side of things, I also think he wasn't necessarily the most reliable source, in some ways, at least. * Edited to add: Great interview with Ivor Miller - an Ekpe and Abakwa initiate (maybe the 1st person to belong to both societies), here.

Thanks, Allen! I've known Szwed's name for a long time, and have likely read some of his work, but am having trouble recalling exactly what titles offhand... And I'm more than happy to go hunting for o.p. titles. Abebooks.com is a great place to shop.

One of the best sources I've come across is Dena J. Epstein's Sinful Tunes and Spirituals: Black Folk Music to the Civil War. Very much worth buying, I think, and definitely drawing on quotes from many travelers to the US, from early colonial times onward. One of the more interesting things she references is a British traveler's account of hearing "the sprightly barafoo" - aka the balafon, one type of W. African marimba - here. Because the instrument died out entirely in black American tradition, while other instruments survived but also changed. (Like the various West African lutes that ultimately morphed into the modern banjo.) I think that shows one of the ways in which trying to trace survivals is tricky, if only because it points out that many things were discarded, for reasons that we have no way of knowing for certain. It seems that many things that have been remembered/retained have also changed form, either slightly or a lot. That doesn't invalidate their origins (i.e., as coming from Africa), but it does point to the formation of new cultures (African American, Afro-Caribbean, Afro-Brazilian etc.), during slavery times and later. anyway...

Do you have any further info., like publisher and publication dates for these? They're proving kind of hard to track down. thanks in advance.