seeline

As a bit of a response to some of MG's early posts in this thread (about the larger bands from Guinea and Mali in particular), here's Mande music specialist Eric Charry on the history of Bembeya Jazz. He has a great deal to say about djelis, traditional music, some of the "outside" musical influences that are important for these bands, etc. From what I know - not nearly as much as people like Graeme Counsel or Charry - Cuban music was super-important for the musicians in these bands, right down to their choices of instrumentation. Recordings of Cuban music were widely sold in Africa via a subsidiary of HMV, and musicians from places as diverse as Cameroon and Kenya talk about how important this music was - still is - for an entire generation of people. (The founders of Bembeya and other bands are part of that generation, so were many who have since passed on - scads of musicians from Congo, the great Cameroonian musicologist/poet/composer/lyricist/performer Francis Bebey, and so many more...) At any rate, the interview with Charry is just the tip of the iceberg re. resources (including discographies and reviews) to be found at www.afropop.org (web site for NPR's Afropop Worldwide show). Highly recommended, and - in this case - I'll also plug Charry's book on Mande music. Banning Eyre's book In Griot Time also covers this ground, though in a non-academic writing way. (I've linked to his site because the book is hard to find elsewhere - it's o.p. and some sellers are asking for absurdly high amounts of money for it...)

This is really helpful (all the info. about royalties, etc.) - and I have to say that i envy you the opportunity to get into those shops' back rooms! The "Aladdin's cave" aspect of them must be sheer delight. Have you been to either Bamako or Conakry? I have a feeling that you *might* be able to scrounge up some recordings of older jelis and jelimouso in those cities, but who knows... I've been told that Bamako was a record buyers' paradise back in the 70s; that lots and lots of rare LPs (legit pressings) of a plethora of styles were available there that were quite rare in both Europe and the US. (And I'm talking about European and US jazz, blues, etc. LPs, not local K7s.) I bet that a lot of East African coastal cities would have very interesting music on offer, too. maybe someday I'll get to go... Re. some of the recordings you recommended above, I think most of them are available on Emusic.com., sans liner notes. Edited to add: my recent favorites (from Stern's and a few other companies) are retrospectives of Tabu Ley Rochereau's and Franco's careers. While i realize this is a kora thread - and that they're from Congo/Zaire - I thought I'd mention them anyway, as they're well worth picking up. (or dl'ing from emusic.com)

Vice versa (taste), so I need one of those smileys, too. fwiw, I'm *not* saying that there are tons of K7s of kora players - or of any other djelis, for that matter (playing trad. rep.). but there are some floating around, and hopefully, folks will find more and be able to make them available. My hunch is that the handful of Westerners who are actively studying kora and other djeli instruments are trying to dig them up. As for the broader Marsalis family analogy, yep - we agree there, too! (Though clearly, there's a difference between djelis, being that the position is hereditary and has lots more to it than learning an instrument, and families who've pursued music - though of course, there are lots of similarlities, too.)

Gotcha, MG! I'm not crazy about a lot of those collaborations, but I think some are arguably much more successful than others. We keep cross-posting - lots more to talk about, though I think I need to be less quick on the draw in order for the convo to be a bit more coherent. cheers! e. the guy who runs the worldservice blog has some K7s of kora players posted....

A quick add: http://djembefola.com/board/ Although this board is focused on djembe/dunun music from W. Africa, there's also a lot of good info. about bala, ngoni, kora and other instruments there. One reason all that shows up on a drum board is that some of the major djembe players who've come to the West are from djeli (griot) families and perform and record with other djelis when possible. MG, I think you might find some of the posts there very interesting. (Lots of great links to videos that people have dug up, too.)

MG, with all due respect, you may not have been in the right shops for that, or in places at the right time. (when cassettes of kora players were available.) They do exist, as do older cassette recordings of djelis playing ngoni/xalam/whatever other local name the instrument has. I'll leave it for now. Edited to add: the VOA blog has a treasure trove of Senegalse Sufi music - that genre has yet to be picked up by anyone in the West. If I could, I'd spend some serious time/money on picking up recordings of this music, and I do hope that it gets more exposure outside of W. Africa...

Also, MG... not to be too dogmatic myself, but by "first generation," I'm assuming that you're referring to the first generation of kora-playing djelis who have made recordings? I also think - fwiw - that it might be a good idea to put this in a slightly larger context, of both djeli instruments (ngoni, balafon, xalam, etc.), of women djelis who have been recorded (like Mah Damba), and more. I *don't* think that the Western recordings of kora are happening in some kind of isolation, or that they're necessarily separate from the larger context - of recordings made by djelis on other djeli instruments + vox. (Which is definitely a djeli instrument!) Does that make sense?

Also, TMG, I can't agree with this: They've had the great good fortune to be recorded by a couple of Western labels *and* have seen some of their releases sell well. I can't see how this has anything to do with Marsalis or what he's been doing (or not). Amadou and Mariam have had a similar experience, partly (I'm sure) due to the fact that there are so many people from French-speaking W. Africa living in Europe now. I don't think that invalidates what they do (whether I like it or not), and I'm very wary of judging musicians - in general - in the terms you're using. (Ditto for Salif Keita, Youssou N'Dour, Papa Wemba and many others...) La plus ça change, la plus ça meme chose. (or something like that.)

Which is also true of Lomax, in certain respects (to my mind, anyway). did you catch my links and info. post above? Lots of great resources!

My take on Ian is that he's a bit of a crank. Rod Stradling, of Musical Traditions, has his own leanings that way, too. (I had an exchange of emails with Ian over his demonization of the American baseball World Series a few years back. It was interesting and frustrating, too.) Maybe this is an English thing? (Though I'd be the 1st to say that Alan Lomax had similar tendencies...) Edited to add: I think some recordings (like the Kora Jazz Trio) are a natural result of collaboration between African musicians who've emigrated to western European countries with their new local peers. Why not?

http://www.coraconnection.com/ - good site for info. + lots of rare recordings for sale. I seriously have to wonder if some things here aren't a bit overstated - just because certain kinds of recordings are made for non-African audiences doesn't mean that people in W. Africa aren't listening to - and perpetuating - this music. That's equally the case with other djeli (griot) instruments like the ngoni. So many recordings are made for strictly "local" markets... and they seldom find their way to the West, let alone penetrate the consciousness of Westerners. Folks might want to check the following blogs for info. and some music: http://wrldsrv.blogspot.com/ http://www.voanews.com/english/Africa/blog/ - this blog has a ton of things that might surprise old Africa hands. http://awesometapesfromafrica.blogspot.com/

new age + smooth jazz + drum machines. Hmm.

And Jane (the sister who mostly did production). Very sad news.

leite, it's nice to have you posting on this topic! if you look around a bit, you will find other threads on Brazilian music... all the best, s.

No wonder I couldn't "get" any of these, Bebo + Chucho and "Carinhoso" excepted! Thanks so much for a challenging BFT and for the introduction to a lot of artists who are new to me - that's one of the main reasons I'm here, to learn. all the best, s.

I seriously doubt he was worried about being "authentic," which is part of the fun, no? Must confess that I'm not really a fan, but hey - it's a big world, and there's plenty of room in it for his brand of originality - and playfulness, too.

Bev makes some great points. Regarding Anouar Brahem, I personally don't believe his work is "jazz," even though his ECM releases are often understood and promoted as such. His music is through-composed for the most part. I once saw him (with Turkish clarinetist Barbaros Erköse and Lassad Hosni, who usually plays Arabic percussion on his recordings) and ... they more or less played through the compositions on his then-new album, Astrakhan Café, note for note. I really enjoyed hearing Erköse and Hosni, but it was, on the whole, a very underwhelming concert. Nothing caught fire. Maybe I'm just a contrarian, but I keep trying to listen to Brahem's recordings and keep coming away with ... well, not much. (Especially compared to some of the guys who are doing really serious fusion/improv, like Turkish musician Okay Temiz.) I don't want to dismiss Brahem out of hand - there definitely is something there - but it just doesn't do much for me. (I could say the same of a number of "Western" artists who record for ECM, or, at least, their ECM recordings, but that's a whole different topic!)

R. A.-K.'s music is (imo) a fusion of Arabic classical, Lebanese folkloric and pop elements + jazz (and many other things); I think people like Lateef were experimenting with bringing other kinds of instruments and sounds into a N. American jazz context, which is different to what people like R. A.-K. are doing. I think more of the successful "fusion" styles tend to come from people who were/are grounded in their own "roots" styles 1st, rather than the other way around, though there are some major exceptions. But adding certain instruments, rhythms and melodic forms just to give something an "exotic" flavor is much different than fully integrating those elements into the music being played. I think Airto is a great example of someone who was able to bring a variety of Brazilian instruments, rhythms and aesthetics into a North American jazz context, and also successful at creating his own blend of jazz and various forms of Brazilian music (plus some other styles as well; he's pretty eclectic, but so are many other Brazilian percussionists...). I do think this whole subject will look vastly different to whoever's talking about it, depending on their (my) individual pov and experience with listening to and/or playing music from other cultures. (I'll add that I've heard - and, a number of years back, reviewed - several "fusion" projects where Europeans went to Africa and ran the recording sessions. In all cases, things would probably have worked far better if some of the African sidemen had been able to head up the projects. Oh well...) just my .02 worth - nothing definitive here.

De nada, Durium! I assumed that you would also post a link to your blog... And... I think Pixinguinha was one of the great composers/musicians of the 20th century - I am not referring to Brazil alone, but to the whole world! btw, I saw that at least one site says that Carinhoso was 1st recorded in 1928. Do you know if that information is correct?

Al, I kind of hate to break it to you, but Jobim didn't write "Carinhoso." It's by Pixinguinha, one of the greatest Brazilian composers of all time (and one who's definitely not as well known as he ought to be). My link takes you to a recording of the piece ... might be a bit of a surprise, and also explain why it's played as it is in Durium's BFT track. Feliz Ano Novo, everyone! Edited to add: a nice version (with lyrics) by Marisa Monte and Paulinho da Viola, here:

I'm in for a download...

I don't see how you could go wrong with Dolly Rathebe. She and Dorothy Masuka are probably my favorites, out of the "name" singers from southern Africa that I've heard.

I'm on the S. Arlington/Alexandria line and there's a bridge into Alexandria just down the hill. Can't tell from the pic, but there are 3 or 4 cars right now with engines being gunned, wheels spinning....sliding all over the place. Total mayhem over there. Seeline, you'd be rolling your eyes if you were here to see it! You're right, I would! When I 1st came to the area, I knew how to drive in snow and just couldn't believe how people reacted to small amounts of it. By the time I left the area, I was scared to drive in 2", if only because of how badly the roads are "maintained." I can also recall seeing the "snow removal crew" at National Airport (Feb. 1984) live on TV - a couple of guys with shovels out on one of the main runways. (The plow apparently wouldn't start up; it was sitting in a shed off to one side.)

This makes me smile - I lived in NoVA for over 20 years, and am well aware that 1 inch of snow causes complete paralysis! I also remember that storm 25 years ago, as I had to drive on Route 50 (VA), which hadn't been plowed, was full of icy ruts over a foot deep and littered with abandoned cars. (Crazy, I know, but I was taking an evening class at GW and my prof, who lived in Alexandria, insisted on going through with it even though *he* had to drive home, too...) I wonder if they'll ever be properly prepared for snow in D.C.

de nada, Lazaro. Seems to be right up there with "Jesus" candy canes.