Mark Stryker

Leaving aside "Speak Like a Child" I might offer these in rebuttal: Wayne Shorter's "Infant Eyes," Robert Schumann's "Kinderszenen, Op. 15" ("Scenes from Childhood"), Debussy's "Children's Corner," Stevie Wonder's "Isn't She Lovely," Monk's "Little Rootie Tootie." I think "Baby Got Back" and "Baby You Can Drive My Car" are coming from a different place.

I've always thought that cover design was damned cool - and the music inside it just as good. I reviewed "Speak Like Child" for Down Beat when it came out and gave it a mere two-and-a-half stars! Seemed rather bland to me. Have you listened to it more recently and, if yes, has your opinion changed? No, haven't listened recently. Will do soon. P.S. Don't have time right now to find (if I even can) and type out my ancient review, but that sense of blandness IIRC had to do mostly with the music's lack of rhythmic and harmonic and timbral interest (IMO of course). But then in those areas one man's relative lack of interesting material can be another man's sublimity. You may have been wrong but still pretty impressive given that you were probably only 12 years old at the time, right?

Personally, I like the record but find that I don't return to it all that often compared to, say, "Empyrean Isles" and "Maiden Voyage," which are definitive, or the early Mwandishi albums that take the germinating ideas on "Speak Like a Child" to a completely new level of authority. "Speak Like a Child" is a transitional record, pointing toward the Mwandishi band in the writing but without a working group to fully explore its implications or merge the writing and improvising into something seamless. Also, I've always wondered about the choice of Mickey Roker on drums, who sounds ok and is stretching in terms of his own playing but lacks the looser approach to time and interactive qualities that a Tony Williams, Joe Chambers or a young Jack DeJohnette would have brought to this idiom. Having said that, Herbie's own playing here pretty consistently knocks me out. 3 1/2 stars overall on a high historical standard, but 4 for Herbie's playing and the compositions.

I've always thought that cover design was damned cool - and the music inside it just as good. I reviewed "Speak Like Child" for Down Beat when it came out and gave it a mere two-and-a-half stars! Seemed rather bland to me. Have you listened to it more recently and, if yes, has your opinion changed?

Just for the record, I too would pass on a song called "I Support Genocide" based on the title, unless, perhaps, there was a satiric intent ala "Springtime for Hitler." On the other hand, I now prefer to avoid Mel Gibson movies because it seems clear that he considers "I Support Genocide" by The Arayan Nation to be a great anthem. Good actor though ...

Did the three great mid '70s LPs by Sonny Fortune ever appear on CD? I loved these when I was younger but haven't listened to them for a long time. Got reminded of them today and wondering how they've held up. I need to find a moment to check them out again. Used to play the tune "In Waves of Dreams" ... also loved those Horizon gatefold jackets with lead sheets, transcriptions, mix diagrams, etc. Totally cool. Long Before Our Mothers Cried (Strata-East) Awakening (A&M Horizon) Waves of Dreams (A&M Horizon)

I think it's a strong record. Kenny's best in a while.

That's committment On this particular point, I once asked Herbie about being married all of these years to the same person, when the rigors of the music business, the road, etc., had led to so many divorces and broken relationships. He said (and I'm slightly paraphrasing here since I don't have access to notes). "Each of us is responsible for our own happiness." I thought that was a really interesting answer and wondered the extent to which it might reflect his Buddhist beliefs (or maybe it's just dime-store pyschology found in the pages of Cosmo between perfume ads). But his larger point, that placing the responsibility for your own happiness on the other person in a relationship leads to problems, is something I've never forgotten.

Nobody on CTI was occupying a progressive or conceptual space in the public's mind. Hancock however, was always considered a 'progressive' musician, especially by those with more of a foot in the rock camp, even up to his involvement with Laswell. Is this what your beef is? That he was essentially a conservative musician, who should not be afforded any more privileged status than the more blatantly commercial CTI side of Fusion. The 'title' Speak Like A Child, reflects the 'Picasso syndrome', that plagued art and music still caught up in Modernist concepts. Ornette was also responsible for this. The music was ahead of the words and concepts, and this reflects the sometimes embarrassing titles and texts used by some musicians (and labels) to represent and frame the music - when it wasn't being marketed to only a Soul Jazz audience. Hancock was not alone in this, and probably didn't spend as much time thinking through the conceptualisation of his words. Not as much as Joyce anyway First of all, let's wish Herbie a happy 72nd birthday. (Born April 12, 1940) Now, Allen: In the immortal words of Jeff Spicoli, "Hey, dude, what's your problem?!" Are you saying you've never listened to the record because you don't like the title or are you saying you heard it once but thought the title was so dumb you swore off it forevermore? Either way I'm having a hard time processing. Not liking the music is certainly legitimate, but using the title as a sign of intellectual failure when the music itself is remarkably sophisticated on every level seems like throwing out the baby with the bath water and all that. But, ok, we all live in the world we choose to live in. But for me, I want "Speak Like a Child" as part of my soundtrack options (not to mention the rest of the Blue Notes.) Headhunters, too, for that matter, especially the absolutely killin' live double album from Japan called "Flood." Also, all the Mwandishi band music and much of the later work too -- but certainly not all and I would of course admit he's produced a lot of schlock along the way and that, on the whole, the records in recent decades have not been as satisfying as the live performances that I've heard. But there are exceptions -- I thought the live record with Brecker and Hargrove, etc. was a great jazz recording and I thought the Joni Mitchell record was a great pop record. But back to the title , which I rather like or at least don't see as any more problematic than, say, "Let My Children Hear Music," "A Child is Born," or "Inka Dinka Doo." Herbie is quoted in the liner notes (by Nat Hentoff) that the title came from Frank Wolff: "It's a result of a picture that a friend of mine, David Blythewood, took. I dug it so much I brought it to Frank for use as the cover for this album. Frank said it was so evocative a photography becasue of the innocence and naivete in it. And so I started thinking about the quality of innocence when I was writing this song. Clearly the music doesn't sound too much like what's going on today -- war, riots, the stock market getting busted up. And the reason it doesn't I realized is that I'm optimistic. I believe in hope and peace and love. It's not that I'm blind to what's going on, but I feel this music is a foward look into what could be a bright future. The philosophy represented in this number, and to a large extent in the album as a while, is child-like. But not childish. By that I mean there are certain elements of childhood we lose and wish we could have back -- purity, spontaneity. When they do return to us, we're at our best. So what I'm telling the world is: Speak like a child. Thank and feel in terms of hope and the possibilitiesl of making ourselves less impure." Ok, you might find this all a little too precious and embarassing (I don't), but even if you do, I would suggest, contrary to Freelancer above, that Herbie certainly has thought through pretty deeply the conceptualism behind the words.

Herbie did tell me once in an interview that he, Chris Anderson and (I think) Willie Pickens all used to practice together. They would trade-off playing ballads, each playing a chorus and reharmonizing like demons, learning from each other and exploring together.

Wow, this was completely new to me! Looks like you can get it as a download at 99 cents per track. Four bucks for the whole thing. I'm there. Thanks for posting. Coda: Hmm. Amazon has the four tracks for 99 cents each but the entire album for $5.99. What's that about?

Don't forget Clare Fischer. In the Los Angeles Times' obituary, Hancock is quoted: "Clare Fischer was a major influence on my harmonic concept," Herbie Hancock said in a statement on Fischer's website. Hancock credited Fischer's arrangements for the 1950s vocal group the Hi-Lo's with significantly influencing his 1968 recording "Speak Like a Child." Larry: Thanks for the source detail above.

Reluctant as I am to reopen this can of worms, I do want to point out this passage from a recent Tristano biography by Eunmi Shim in which Hancock directly address the issue of Tristano's influence. I'm sure Allen will say that Herbie doesn't go far enough and this is more evidence of his denial of his prime influence (smile). Having said that, however, one of the issues that came up here in prior dicussions about possible links between the two pianists was the contention that Hancock never talks about Tristano and this is actually further evidence that deep links do indeed exist, a misdirection ploy by Herbie to throw us off the scent. So in that context it's worth noting that he does speak about Tristano here (and admiringly). Of course, I'm sure interpretations of all this will vary. Coda: If somebody has the book, could you look up the footnotes to find the sources, because it would provide interesting context. When Herbie says "at that time" what is he refering to -- when the music was played or when he first heard it? And when did he make these comments? http://books.google.com/books?id=HQ9wL02AiNQC&pg=PA209&lpg=PA209&dq=herbie+hancock+and+lennie+tristano&source=bl&ots=vR9iGilT68&sig=KjwKwxCv6kDseDLUJbpftH7zzcE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ge-FT66XLYaDgAe65MnIBw&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=herbie%20hancock%20and%20lennie%20tristano&f=false

http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/21932.html

That rhythm section certainly recorded frequently. LPs by Buck Hill, Nathan Page, Charles Sullivan, John McNeil/Tom Harrell, Nathan Page and Williams himself come immediately to mind. Gotta be others.

Long piece from New York Times. Don't know the writer. Assume he's from the city desk given the nature of the story http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/nyregion/giuseppi-logan-jazz-artist-tries-for-a-comeback.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=giuseppii%20&st=cse Oops. Just saw the ongoing Logan thread in "Artists."

Never cared for "Misty" either but on the other hand always liked "I Want to Talk About You" (basically same changes). Here's an interesting version:

Closing the circle: Far from comprehensive Amazon search yields two other contemporary covers of "The Outlaw," neither of which I've heard. Joe Chambers: http://www.amazon.com/Outlaw-Joe-Chambers/dp/B000E40Q6K/ref=sr_1_9?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1333543717&sr=1-9 Danny D'Imperio: http://www.amazon.com/The-Outlaw-Danny-Group-DImperio/dp/B00000JFRP/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1333544183&sr=1-1

There's a very nice version of Silver's "The Outlaw" on the SF album. Did anyone else ever cover that excellent composition? Two nice covers of "The Outlaw" come to mind: Trumpeter Brian Lynch recorded it on "Peer Pressure" (Criss Cross) in the mid' 80s with Ralph Moore, Jim Snidero (out on this track) Kirk Lightsey, Jay Anderson and Victor Lewis. http://www.amazon.com/Peer-Pressure-Brian-Lynch/dp/B000A1QMSI/ref=sr_1_23?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1333476135&sr=1-23 It's on youtube here: Then there's the Blue Note 7, a band formed in conjunction with Blue Note's 70th anniversary in 2009 (Ravi Coltrane, Steve Wilson, Nicholas Payton, Peter Bernstein, Bill Charlap, Peter Washington, Lewis Nash.) I thought the studio record they made was dull, but "The Outlaw" was one of the stronger tracks. More interesting: I heard the group live after touring for a while with the material and by then it was animiated, loose and a lot of fun. Here's a taste of their "The Outlaw" from youtube. Don't care for either of those versions. Like Dameron's "Tadd's Delight," with its similarly shifting accents, it's a hard tune to get right rhythmically, and Horace and Louis Hayes do both times -- on the original recording with Art Farmer and Clifford Jordan and at Newport in 1958 with Blue Mitchell and Junior Cook. Indeed, by comparison with Hayes, the normally fine Victor Lewis sounds quite "off" and jumpy to me with Lynch's group -- perhaps through lack of enough rehearsal time. Also, particularly on the original recording the horns get a lovely "glide" feel going; the accents are hit but also are somehow sort of slid into/rounded off. I think that's what the piece calls for. Horace was something else. I hear you. Part of it might have been rehearsal issues but also the pick-up group vs. working band and recording today with head phones/isolation booths. More importantly probably, the whole hard bop rhythmic language and feel of the '50s/'60s is just very, very difficult to reproduce (though can be done) and a tune like "The Outlaw" that digs deep into the DNA of that feel is going to highlight any awkwardness. As great as Victor Lewis is -- and he's a hero of mine -- his fundamental conception of swing (and Latin) is really rooted in post-bop (60s -- TonyElvinJackBillyHart) rather than '50s hard bop, though he of course knows that language too, but it's certainly not his bread and butter. One correction: you have Blue Mitchell on the Newport '58 recording but it's actually Louis Smith.

There's a very nice version of Silver's "The Outlaw" on the SF album. Did anyone else ever cover that excellent composition? Two nice covers of "The Outlaw" come to mind: Trumpeter Brian Lynch recorded it on "Peer Pressure" (Criss Cross) in the mid' 80s with Ralph Moore, Jim Snidero (out on this track) Kirk Lightsey, Jay Anderson and Victor Lewis. http://www.amazon.com/Peer-Pressure-Brian-Lynch/dp/B000A1QMSI/ref=sr_1_23?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1333476135&sr=1-23 It's on youtube here: Then there's the Blue Note 7, a band formed in conjunction with Blue Note's 70th anniversary in 2009 (Ravi Coltrane, Steve Wilson, Nicholas Payton, Peter Bernstein, Bill Charlap, Peter Washington, Lewis Nash.) I thought the studio record they made was dull, but "The Outlaw" was one of the stronger tracks. More interesting: I heard the group live after touring for a while with the material and by then it was animiated, loose and a lot of fun. Here's a taste of their "The Outlaw" from youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKcdWYvZB-E I heard a version of that quartet (I think a different drummer) at The Brown Shoe in Chicago. After a would-be virtuosic (IMO just show-off, rubber-bandy) solo by Scotty Holt, Jackie said pretty much to himself (I was close to the bandstand) "ridiculous shit." From that moment to this, I'm not sure in what sense he meant that. FWIW, this quartet with Billy Higgins on drums can be heard on two SteepleChase records, "Dr. Jackle" and "Tune-Up," that both date to a one-nighter at the Left Bank Jazz Society in Baltimore on Dec. 18, 1966. The verite bootleg sound adds to what is already a more-raw-than-usual sounding Jackie -- great stuff but not for the faint of heart. Same quartet (w/Higgins) also recorded two standards in Feb. '67 for the Tribute to Charlie Parker Lp on RCA and then in March was the backbone for Jackie's "Old and New Gospel" with Ornette on Blue Note.

Jamie Moyer makes the Rockies' starting rotation at age 49. Should we be talking about him as the Gordie Howe of MLB? Actually, he's probably more like the George Blanda ... still, helluva thing ...

I'm sure this has been discussed before so forgive the interrruption, but have no bootlegs ever turned up of any gigs that Joe Henderson played with Miles' band?

I heard the longtime Chicago trio led by pianist John Campbell with bassist Kelly Sill and drummer Joel Spencer countless times both on their own and backing up so many visiting stars (Woody Shaw, Red Rodney, Dave Liebman, Eddie Harris and on) and it still drives me nuts that they never got recorded as a threesome, especially in the 1980s. That was a remarkably telepathic, exciting and versatile trio -- far superior than so many "national" bands in mainstream idioms -- with a very personal take on the bebop\post-bop language and an interesting repertoire that swept through a lot of piano players' best writing, from Bud Powell to Bill Evans, Chick Corea and Cedar Walton and more. I also heard them many times as a quartet with former Chicago saxophonist Ed Peterson playing Ed's music and with yet another Chicagoan, tenor saxophonist Ron Dewar, a personal hero, who on his inspired nights in those days played with a truly astounding level of iauthority coming out of '60s Sonny Rollins but WAY past imitation. I cherish the cassette tapes I have all of this that prove the point but wish there were commercial recordings. They would have turned a lot of heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKcdWYvZB-E