Tim McG

Right. Just like we won't confuse you with the facts about Clinton and your republican get-back for Nixon. Well argued, Dan.

Uh-huh. And when he is exonerated, you guys will be running for cover.

I echo the same sentiment. It was a great ride, but we're all going to miss you Bill. Rest in Peace, Coach.

A pound of Sumatra or Ethiopian beans @ $15 bucks a toss is good enough for me, too.

You're right there are, were, and always will be plenty of assholes in sports. And of course Bonds is not the only one using steroids, past or present. That is obvious as hell. He is though, the one about to break Aaron's record, so the spotlight is on him. Where did you get those numbers at? In a poll conducted by MSNBC just a few days ago, the numbers are quite different... MSNBC This ESPN poll matches your numbers more closely, but you left out the fact that 73% of those polled believe Bonds uses Steroids. ESPN I got those numbers from a poll done a couple months a go. These new polls should suggest to you that the media is attempting to do some damage control. I mean, think about it, you have a multi-billion dollar organization which has been bitching about Bonds, with no actual proof, what would you do? Answer: Take another poll which favors your prejudice.. So, should we discount polls about politicians, war, music, and favorite colors? I mean, what you're saying is that the people reporting and taking these polls are twisting the numbers to make the outcome whatever they want. Or polling to the exact select group that will give them the answers they want. Or maybe they're skipping right over the process of even conducting the poll and just publishing numbers the way they see it. I'm convinced. Fuck it, I'm convinced, Barry deserves a break and at this point I don't see why he should even have to hit one more fucking time. JUST GIVE HIM THE TITLE YOU BASTARDS! BARRY!..BARRY!..BARRY!..BARRY!..BARRY!..BARRY!.. Do you follow politics at all? Yeah...this kind of thing never happens, huh. Well, I'm sure Bush will be happy to know that his approval rating is much better than recent polls indicate. Congress should also expect some good news as well. So, basically, things like this happen in the media all the time. Guilty as charged. Step down. Next case.

If steroids had no effect on a player's performance, why would MLB care about banning them then? (That's a rhetorical question, you don't have to answer, though I'm sure you will). Making one big (i.e. increasing muscle mass) DOES have an effect on the distance a ball travels, and that's why hitters were taking them. It gave them the ability to hit balls further, and turn routine fly-ball-outs into home runs. Guys like Bonds who could hit home runs anyway, suddenly were able to hit MORE of them due to steroid usage. Canseco and Giambi's numbers are inflated as well. As are Mark McGuire's. You can deny it all you want, but it's "patently true" to most people who aren't SF Giants homers. As said before in this thread, it's extremely doubtful you'd be sticking up Bonds if his whole career had been spent elsewhere - with the Twins for instance. The MLB outlawed steroids because they are unhealthy and kill the very athlete using them. Some benefit is gained, but not enough to create great hitters out of mediocre ones. In short, steroids do not work...they just make you bigger. The common run-of-the-mill belief is they make you hit HRs. That is total crap. The MLB knows it too because they would have done something about this sooner if they did think steroids cause Hrs. It is total PR to satiate the sporting news media jackals and guys like you who bought it. Look at Bonds yearly output. He hit 40+ HRs EIGHT times in his career and 20+ HRs ELEVEN times in his career. Now you're going to sit there and tell me that all happened because of steroids? You see, this is where your whole argument falls apart and why it is sheer foolishness to even suggest steroids made Bonds a better HR hitter. Better than what? Better than great? Think of what you are supporting here, Aggie. A first year HS student could see through that pretend argument. Buddy, we have already argued the whole business about mass vs distance of the ball hit and it has been doubted and/or out right debunked...and not just by me. I am not going to rehash it for you....go back and read it and on this thread. Blinders on.

My mother-in-law's ex-husband had a saying: You don't skimp on fun. I'd say there's some real wisdom behind that.

I don't know, but it sure as hell wasn't me. [yike!] Now that's funny

I agree. But here again, why does the champion have to be this really nice guy? It's like you're damned if you win and damned if you don't.

Still waiting on a plausible explanation for this question. Still waiting. I have already answered this question: He has already admitted to using "the clear" when it wasn't against MLB rules to do so. What the hell else do you want....flowers? I'd like you to answer WHY he chose to use them, if they have no effect. edit - as usual, you answered a question that wasn't asked. OK...do you follow sports, I mean, at all? Athletes will look for anything they think will give them the edge over the next guy. Back in the 90s guys fooled themselves into believing steroids somehow enhanced their game. This is patently false and has been proven time and again through those who [like Giambi and Canseco to name a couple] took them, that all they do is make you big....they don't make you good. Are you asking me to get inside Bonds mind and tell you what he was thinking at the time, or what? I fail to understand your problem here.

In the 2 month old poll I quoted in Post 13 of this thread, only 37% wanted Bonds to break the record. So your argument that these are "new polls" that are doing damage control is also incorrect. That would still indicate that "everybody" isn't against him. Hey, don't bother to reason it out. Overreact. It's easier than thinking.

You're right there are, were, and always will be plenty of assholes in sports. And of course Bonds is not the only one using steroids, past or present. That is obvious as hell. He is though, the one about to break Aaron's record, so the spotlight is on him. Where did you get those numbers at? In a poll conducted by MSNBC just a few days ago, the numbers are quite different... MSNBC This ESPN poll matches your numbers more closely, but you left out the fact that 73% of those polled believe Bonds uses Steroids. ESPN I got those numbers from a poll done a couple months a go. These new polls should suggest to you that the media is attempting to do some damage control. I mean, think about it, you have a multi-billion dollar organization which has been bitching about Bonds, with no actual proof, what would you do? Answer: Take another poll which favors your prejudice.. So, should we discount polls about politicians, war, music, and favorite colors? I mean, what you're saying is that the people reporting and taking these polls are twisting the numbers to make the outcome whatever they want. Or polling to the exact select group that will give them the answers they want. Or maybe they're skipping right over the process of even conducting the poll and just publishing numbers the way they see it. I'm convinced. Fuck it, I'm convinced, Barry deserves a break and at this point I don't see why he should even have to hit one more fucking time. JUST GIVE HIM THE TITLE YOU BASTARDS! BARRY!..BARRY!..BARRY!..BARRY!..BARRY!..BARRY!.. Do you follow politics at all? Yeah...this kind of thing never happens, huh.

Still waiting on a plausible explanation for this question. Still waiting. I have already answered this question: He has already admitted to using "the clear" when it wasn't against MLB rules to do so. What the hell else do you want....flowers?

But....but....you yourself have said that steroids dont help baseball players play better. You've been arguing that point throughout this whole thread, seemingly. Your point? What I said was if they are to asterisk Bonds, then they need to asterisk Gagne, too. Pretty straight forward don't you think? Nah. Why think?

You're right there are, were, and always will be plenty of assholes in sports. And of course Bonds is not the only one using steroids, past or present. That is obvious as hell. He is though, the one about to break Aaron's record, so the spotlight is on him. Where did you get those numbers at? In a poll conducted by MSNBC just a few days ago, the numbers are quite different... MSNBC This ESPN poll matches your numbers more closely, but you left out the fact that 73% of those polled believe Bonds uses Steroids. ESPN I got those numbers from a poll done a couple months a go. These new polls should suggest to you that the media is attempting to do some damage control. I mean, think about it, you have a multi-billion dollar organization which has been bitching about Bonds, with no actual proof, what would you do? Answer: Take another poll which favors your prejudice.. "the media" is a single, multi-billion dollar organization, apparently engaged in an unprecedented attempt to destroy a decent, honorable man ... do you ever listen to yourself? Oh? You mean like they did to President Clinton? Go back to sleep, Dan...you're dreaming.

Do you fish? This post sure looks like bucket of fish bait to me. Hey! Ken "Bait Bucket" Dryden...your new nickname

Right after the bigoted French do.

And the French pretend press will make sure an American is blamed.

Exactement! Goodspeak... you think doping isn't rife in other sports? In America....of course it is. But our pinhead president uses his faux investigation of baseball to cover for his ilegal war in Iraq. The real culprit, if the truth be told, is in Amercan football...but nobody here seems the least bit concerned when linemen are 6' 7" and weighing in at over 350 pounds....all of it muscle. My concern here is that Le Tour has been told before it's drug checking isn't up to standard yet they refused to acknowledge what a farce it is [especially when it can be used to target Lance Armstrong] until their guys get nailed. That is totral crap, IMO. The French hate it that a mere American could dominate "their" sport. Personally? I hope we boycott them and encourage other Nations to do the same...they deserve nothing less. I am not too sure where I should start with your post. Get over the American - French rivalry. If you are a teacher, I hope you can raise above this simplistic and childish debate. Since when do French people hate 'their sport' being dominated by an American guy? Greg Lemond won the Tour a few times and he is one of the most popular cyclists in France despite having beaten Fignon in the last stage for 8 seconds in 1989. The guy gets a lot of respect from the public and the press. Amstrong managed not to get caught. Fair play to him but being so positive about him and Landis being targeted by French anti-American officials is laughable. These two guys are cheats. The fact that they are American has nothing to do with their bad press in France. Do you have a French chip on your shoulder? It seems to me that the Tour organizers are doing everything they can to make this event as clean as they can. I am sure they don't give a toss about the nationality of the guys they catch. The problem is that they don't have the support they should get from the UCI (Union cyclist Internationale). If the UCI were prepared to clean this sport, things would be much easier and more consistent. The rules are different from one country to the other and this needs to change. Please. Have the French and the US had issues relative to war of late? Do the French [in large part] see themselves as superior to Americans? Americans don't "hate this sport" but the French HATE Americans. They are INSANELY jealous of Lance Armstrong and want to see his dominance erased. Buddy, I wouldn't visit this hate-filled country on a bet. Who wants to see people who have unreasonable hatred towards us Americans? I sure as hell don't. The French need to grow the hell up and get a clue about dealing with people who don't share their opinions. France is a bigoted state...and you can quote me. To wit: The French are the biggest bunch of self-centered jackasses on this or any other planet. And you can bank on it.

You're right there are, were, and always will be plenty of assholes in sports. And of course Bonds is not the only one using steroids, past or present. That is obvious as hell. He is though, the one about to break Aaron's record, so the spotlight is on him. Where did you get those numbers at? In a poll conducted by MSNBC just a few days ago, the numbers are quite different... MSNBC This ESPN poll matches your numbers more closely, but you left out the fact that 73% of those polled believe Bonds uses Steroids. ESPN I got those numbers from a poll done a couple months a go. These new polls should suggest to you that the media is attempting to do some damage control. I mean, think about it, you have a multi-billion dollar organization which has been bitching about Bonds, with no actual proof, what would you do? Answer: Take another poll which favors your prejudice..

Exactement! Goodspeak... you think doping isn't rife in other sports? In America....of course it is. But our pinhead president uses his faux investigation of baseball to cover for his ilegal war in Iraq. The real culprit, if the truth be told, is in Amercan football...but nobody here seems the least bit concerned when linemen are 6' 7" and weighing in at over 350 pounds....all of it muscle. My concern here is that Le Tour has been told before it's drug checking isn't up to standard yet they refused to acknowledge what a farce it is [especially when it can be used to target Lance Armstrong] until their guys get nailed. That is totral crap, IMO. The French hate it that a mere American could dominate "their" sport. Personally? I hope we boycott them and encourge other Nations to do the same...they deeserve nothing less.

Piss off. The Tour has long been suspect in their drug checking practices and now it has finally caught up to their lying asses. I fail to see how a baseball player, against whom absolutely nothing has been proved, has anything at all to do with the small-minded French and their hatred of American cyclists. Time to exonerate Landis and get off of the back of the greatest cyclist in the history of Le Tour in Lance Armstrong. Le Tour owes the cycling world and America an apology for their very existence....the morons. If there's a moron here, it's you. I think that you are a teacher ? if it's what you are, I'm very sorry for your pupils because the "farce", as usual here, is you, blinded by your "stupid" patriotism. Like Rasmussen, Landis was just a small thieves. The real king of them all, is your idol, Lance Armstrong. If the guy is the greatest of something, it's the "greatest" cheater. Ever. Oh? So you swallowed all of the horseshit your tabloid pretend newspaper Le Snitch printed, eh? Nice. Did you even bother to notice when the tests for Armstrong were proved to be a false positive? Now we know the truth of the matter: Le Tour's drug checking practices didn't work then and they still don't work today. It is an emabrrassment to the whole athletic world that such a pathetic practice can be used, manipulated and abused all in an effort to destroy a cyclist's career. If you were my student I'd recommend remedial help and hold you back a grade. My Freshmen could run circles around such a baseless argument as yours. Blind, stupid hatred of Americans is all this is....pure and simple. Now it's the European's turn to be embarrassed. Shameful, absolutely shameful.

Well, I don't know about you guys but I don't root for my team because they are loaded with really nice guys who kiss babies and help little old ladies across the street, all right? I want to see wins and championships not a wonderful bunch of guys wearing the same uniform. And if there is any truth to tell there are far bigger assholes enshrined in the MLB Hall of Fame, for pete's sake....worse than what Bonds had been made out to be. Lastly, 54% of all fans polled two months ago want to see him do it; 75% of all Blacks want to see him do it. It is only here and in the media I read or hear all the negativity. So if there is an asterisk to be given, fine. That will not change, alter or in any way, shape or form erase the greatness of this accomplishment. And you guys can bitch and moan all you like....I'll be the true fan enjoying it while you guys grind your teeth over it. Be bitter. It's your loss. Next, I want to see an asterisk next to Eric Gagne's 72 saves....there is no way in hell he wasn't juicing and I can parade in front of you all of the specious "evidence" you guys have accepted as literal fact, too. Then we need to investigate every single HOf'er, record holder or great baseball player, hell, any sport's athlete, as well. Let's astrisk them all, if you guys are so concerned about the fairness of it all. How 'bout it? Such foolishness....it's a game, dammit.

After he is indicted, you'll be CHOKING ON THE PROOF. And when he isn't you'll be CHOKING ON YOUR OWN SELF-RIGHTEOUS BULLSHIT.

I patiently await your overly abusive and inexcusable profanity laced reply.