Tim McG

You are as clueless about me and my therapeutic approaches as you are about the issues we've been discussing so far on this thread. Read (slowly) my last post and understand that I'm in the cognitive-behavioral/rational-reality therapy/solution-focused camp for a majority of my clinical cases. Citing John Rosemond, that bible-thumping political conservative who argues against research into childhood disorders, stating that good, old-fashioned parental discipline is all you need to cure whatever problem junior's got. As you said, that tells me exactly where you're coming from. John Rosemond? I think we've discovered the problem. The self-esteem is a tool of the devil school of right-wing psycho-babble. The spare the rod, spoil the child philosophy of child rearing. The just pray about it guide to parenting. That is where many the holier-than-thou bullies I see come from.

About 12 years ago I went to San Antonio and went to the final day of the rodeo, where Loretta Lynn was the featured performer. It was just after Bush II was sworn in, and Loretta made some comment about how it was great that a real Christian conservative was in the White House and that other crook (or something to that effect) was gone. The entire audience went into wild applause. All the men except me were wearing cowboy hats and boots. I felt like standing up and saying, "Just one cotton pickin' minute, I'm a New York Jew leftist atheist and I take exception to that comment," but, alas, I kept my mouth shut and my body intact. Probably a good thing to do around these parts, uh...pard'. The Bushites are second only to Ray-gun in my little land o' enchantment.

I blame the internet. Fried peanut butter sandwiches notwithstanding.

True, and no surprise, but I'm not hooked into the C&W fan world. Sadly, I am surrounded by it. You're right. Old people usually are. Usually are what...old?

A's sweep the Dodgers...? I never saw that one coming.

Oh, I think you could add in a fair amount of Country and Western fans as well. Just sayin'.

Me, defensive? Actually, blaming is a defensive behavior. Calling someone out on their defensive behavior, as I've done here, is something different. I don't blame anyone. It's nonproductive, encourages defensiveness, and makes it more difficult for individuals with influence to assume responsibility. Reading isn't the same thing as learning, obviously. I would have expected someone with all those years of "medical practice" to communicate in a more thoughtful and responsible manner. Labeling, overgeneralizing, and blaming hardly seem "professional". For what it's worth, I'll stack my 20+ years as a clinical psychologist, working with teenagers, parents, families, schools, courts, etc., against your professional experience, any day. That doesn't mean my ideas and opinions are necessarily better, correct, or definitive. But my views do have the benefit of education, training, and most importantly - actual clinical experience. I don't believe "bad parenting" is about leniency or permissiveness anymore than "good parenting" is about being strict. From my observations and working with parents and their kids, effective parenting has a lot to do with being clear, consistent, rational, and fair in teaching children about life and their place in it (including rights and responsibilities). Of course, it means saying "no" whenever it's appropriate, but it's much more than that. Even a young child can say "no", just ask any parent of a 2-year-old. I believe it's how you deal with situations after saying "no" (or "yes" for that matter) that is likely to have a more lasting influence on a child, or a person of any age for that matter. Horrible incidents like the one described in the OP naturally elicit strong emotional reactions and a tendency to label and blame individuals so we can assign guilt and lessen our personal discomfort. However, the seriousness of situations like this call for openness, understanding, and thoughtful, effective responses that help resolve the problems that contribute to such tragedies. These are my thoughts, anyway. Well put, SonnyMax. No simple answers here. Me either. I blame congress.

Sheer, utter nonsense. You blame one group (psychologists), then another (parents), and then another (children with self-esteem). It's obvious you have little understanding about the different factors that influence individual and group behavior. Please stop blaming and labeling and instead read, learn, and broaden your understanding. You're being awfully defensive. Who do you blame??? Or are all 3 groups (parents, kids, psychologists) just perfect. I've read plenty in my 30+ years of medical practice. You should follow the advice in your last sentence (read, learn, etc.). Parents need to start acting like parents again & (some) psychologists need to stop with all of the encouragement of many types of permissive parenting. Hm. I read this and immediately wondered, "Why are you attempting to fix blame?" Secondarily, I really don't get the "self-esteem" argument. You would rather kids were all maniacally depressed or potential suicide victims instead? The point I think you are missing is the media and poor parenting along with a healthy dash of mimicking bad behavior exhibited by schoolmates with the same poor parenting and media influences are causing the bullying behavior. Socio-economic strata, psychological interventions have very little to do with this phenomena. Theory is never the same as real-world experiences, my friend. My 30+ years in the classroom will trump any reading along those lines.

Hope it's a great B-Day!

Agreed. I would, however, suggest that height [or lack of same] has very little to do with respect and/or the ability to maintain classroom discipline. I worked with a gal who topped out at maybe 4'10" and the sophomores she taught toed the mark. Step out of line and she'd make you feel like two-cents waiting for change. Junior high kids are that way for a couple reasons: Poor parenting and media influence plus the fact their hormones have taken their braincells hostage. They either love you or they hate you and not all at the same time....and on alternating days. It's a tough age to teach, but [as I'm sure you know] that still doesn't justify bullying. Personally, I did two years in junior high and threw a party the day I was "paroled" to the high school level. I wouldn't go back to that squirrel cage even at gun point. So, my hat is off to you, Alexander. Seriously.

With all due respect, there's no comparison here, Matthew. The decided difference is Zito came to the Giants as a hot-shot pitcher and demanded a truck load of money [which he got] and a long-term contrct [which he also got] and NEVER lived up to his alleged potential. Lincecum, OTOH, came up as a rookie and promptly won two Cy Youngs [back-to-back] and proceeded to dazzle everyone with his SO average and pitching prowess. Now, when he gets the big money, he tanks. Again, I think he has a bad case of Zito-itis going on or he physically can't pitch like he used to. Big difference and people are willing to cut the guy a little slack where Zito gets props now only because he has FINALLY started to pitch better. However, if this keeps up, the boo birds will come out eventually.

If I may... This whole "kids will be kids" ideology is largely what fuels or, at the very least justifies, bully-type behavior. These kids don't learn this crap on their own. Media and non-parenting, however, almost preach it to them on a daily basis. Further, isn't it that bus monitor's job to control bullying on the bus? She just sat there and took it all. I have to wonder: Why is she there...just to watch?

Exactly. Let the past take care of itself; move on.

I get your point. But I would argue that the pitching has gotten that much better [via coaching, technical and strength training, scouting, etc]. If you would have told me 4-7 years ago that Matt Cain would throw a perfect no-no, I would have thought you were crazy. He has improved that much.

16+ years have gone by. Even the most despicable criminal gets a 7 year limitation on crimes other than murder. This is ridiculous.

Awesome!

I quit liking cycling right after the French started in on Armstrong. Then, when people were being DQ'd for things like cold medicine, I was done. The Feds already dropped any charges and now the USADA wants to rehash it all over again? The [now] 16 year-old evidence has been discredited and out right debunked. These guys are ruining the sport with this pointless harangue.

No school like the old school.

Well..sac fly with less than two outs, sure. I used to follow the Angels [along with the Giants] back when I lived in LA/OC and if there is a strategy to the DH, I ain't seein' it. The biggest and best hitter on the face of the planet steps up, usually in the #4 hole, and his sole purpose in life is to whack the ball as far away from any glove within the same area code. No strategy to that, Jim. Dump the DH...it's bad for baseball. BTW, I hope Ogando gets better soon. I hate to see any player go down like that.

One word: Strategy. When you have that two on, two out then here comes Can't Hit Herbie, the manager has several options depending on how late in the game we are. If it's early in the game, it is a posible bunt situation, double steal, squeeze play or sacrifice fly. If it is late in the game, pull Can't Hit Herbie for a PH and try to bring in a run or two. Personally, I think it makes the game far more interesting and much less predictable than the Designated Gashouse Gorilla who could usually put the ball into orbit each and every time at bat. So they throw junk at him or intentionally walk him on [bor-ing]. Besides, NL pitchers can hit once in a while. Cain, Lincecum, Vogelsong, Bumgarner and Zito have done as much this season. Besides, maybe the AL pitchers need to start taking some BP. Just sayin'.

Hope it's a great Birthday, Kevin!

I just wish the AL would play the game like the Senior Cicuit does: Dump the DH.

Yeah, with Melky Cabrerra back in the line-up it will give the Giants more pop at the plate. I never thought I would hear anyone say that about him! I never thought I'd say that about Angel Pagan either...but we'll take it! Here's hoping it lasts into the playoff run.

Yeah, with Melky Cabrerra back in the line-up it will give the Giants more pop at the plate.