jazzbo

Chrome, don't blame Islam for "The Nation of Islam." Those are two separate belief systems, as Malcolm X found out!

Well, my understanding of Gnosticism is that it is pretty much as you describe, and there is a Gnostic undercurrent in Paul and in the Gospel of John, and there were Gnostic heresies that were a powerful force in the early church, yes. But I believe that it predated Christianity, there is much Gnostic thought in the beliefs of the civilized world five centuries or less before Christ. . . . I guess those definitions are fine that you have there.

Well, Jazz I should have said "an atheist leaning towards gnostic thought." I'm using "gnostic" in the sense of "Gnosticism" which is an ancient religious thought/belief that is a little complicated to go into here and now. I think you were confusing "gnostic" (knowing) with "agnostic" (not knowing). Agnostics and atheists usually get dumped together in a big punch bowl. Hey, if God chooses who is responsible, it's preordained! That predestination thing is a real closed system. . . wow, it's some serious mindfuck. This was a big part of some Judaistic thought before Christianity, and a lot of other ancient religious thought. It's not native to Christianity though it did come back really strongly into some early Protestant systems of thought.

Oh, I don't mind the tweaking Simon at all. Kindof a gnosticismic atheist myself.

AB, my grandmother struggled with that after my grandfather, wasting away from pancreatic cancer, took his own life suddenly. She felt great profound sorrow because she felt that now she and her husband of over fifty years would not be together in the afterlife, she was extremely devout and this was what she had always been taught. I'm not sure how because I wasn't really able to talk to her about this often but she seemed to come to believe that was not the case before she suddenly died of a stroke about eight months after her husband died. Again, I just can't believe in my heart in a God that would be so exclusionary.

Honestly, I'm not making him sound like Gates. That is how it is, that exclusionary, in the writings of Paul, is it not?

I'm hoping mine comes tonight too John. . . .

Deus, you'll not be sorry I think; Little Niles may not even be the best session in the Mosaic! (Others may feel it is. . .you may think so. .. I'm leaning towards the live session.)

Ray, Hans, it's a Superbit Jazz Classic right? McMaster, or RVG?

Jim, I hear you about that struggle. For me the biggest difficulty lies in the adherence to the fact that this man was specially chosen by God to be the vehicle for man's salvation, and if you don't go through him you don't get the salvation. My heart just doesn't believe in such an exclusionary God. I can stand right smack dab behind Jesus' teachings and say HOT DARN THIS IS REALLY THE STUFF SO HARD TO FOLLOW IN THIS WORLD BUT THERE'S NO GOOD EXCUSE NOT TO (I'VE GOT A MILLION THOUGH). But I can't stand behind that exclusive personal salvation thing.

Oh NO! HE MIGHT NEVER FORGIVE US! Oh, who am I fooling, it's Jim, we're already forgiven! Many more happy ones! :rsmile:

My grandfather once told me that an obsession with facts was the lot of someone with lots to hide. . . . I miss that guy!

I'm in total agreement Al. Any of hte Al Grey or Al Grey/Billy Mitchells on Argo or Cadet are worth having! Let's hope they bring more out.

Yes, Jesus is the Greek version of Yeshua, which interestingly means "God Saves."

Well fine, your point is taken BUT Christ is not his last name (or nickname)! (He probably was never called "Christ" in its real form during his lifetime). His last name, correct me if I'm wrong, would probably be "BarJoseph" or "Josephson" (anglicized a bit).

Well, "Christ" is really a title, basically "The Annointed One." One would say "The Passion of the Annointed One," or "The Passion of the King" wouldn't you? Jesus is THE CHRIST. He is NOT Christ. Technically speaking that is.

Hey, in the eighties I was still listening to some of his sixties and seventies stuff!

I've never seen of a Japanese cd. . . .There is no American or European cd release outside the Mosaic Select that I am aware of. . . .

You're right Claude. Not having heard or cared to hear much Zappa since the eighties I'm not a good source of specifics!

Underground, that is a fair assumption.

Analog, Columbia has plans to release six cds of the Cellar Door material, the cds are all sequenced and mixed and ready to print. I don't think they would be happy about this! I'm not pointing fingers really because my hands aren't clean, but the Miles Davis estate has been blocking the sales of all kinds of bootleg cds of Miles material, they would not be happy with this site even if Columbia weren't about to launch cd sales of the material sometime in the next year. Frank Zappa had actually issued an entire series of cds called I think "Ban the Boots"---bootlegs done officially in a special series. I don't know what the sales figures were, but it was done (I'm not much of a Zappa fan so I didn't follow the material closely). I don't think their estate will like this website much either.

They are all likely good. Combille was a French tenor player, some of these may have Django in the band, interesting stuff. Tolbert was a great player; I have the OTHER Classics under his name and some of this material on an lp issue. . . sort of hot novelty small group/medium group swing. Maxine could SING. Johnny Guarneri and Billy Kyle were great pianists: the former famous for his work with Benny Goodman and in Basie member small bands, the latter best known for his work with John Kirby and Louis Armstrong. The Spirits of Rythm were a great tipple/guitar/vocals novelty swing band. . . Teddy Bunn and Leo Watson were the stars. . . . Lucky Millinder was a swing then r and b band; Dizzy had a stretch with them. Nice batch.

Of course then at the end more accessible forms resurface. But it's still got plenty of wack.

I would think that the Miles Davis estate and Columbia Records wouldn't be too happy. . . .

I don't think so.