Steve Reynolds

Making my earlier point better than I did:)

Joe Lovano: From the Soul & Trio Fascination on blue note Joe Maneri on ECM Art Ensemble on ECM Bley-Peacock-Motian: Not Two, Not One ECM (Not sure if ECM qualifies)

EXACTLY! I have nowhere near the expertise in free improv you do, but so much of it is killing without swinging in the "conventional" sense, like the new Jack album or "Espiritu" by Bendian/Cline. Right. I'm thinking more like the power generated by the likes Schlippenbach Trio/Quartet, Peter Brotzmann, Anthony Braxton's classic quartet, or Tim Berne. Not swinging exactly but a sustained and sometimes punishing intensity that generates the same feeling for me. Other groups that fall into category would be Parker-Guy-Lytton, Tarfala which is Mats Gustaffson with Barry Guy & Raymond Strid, Tony Malaby's Tamarindo (which combines all sorts of grooves and seeming anti grooves/skronk, Paul Dunmall with John Edwards and Mark Sanders, David S Ware's classic quartet - especially with Susie Ibarra and Mujician with the grooves of Tony Levin. The mystery and interest often occurs on the margins. Swing? Non-Swing? groove? Non groove? Many combinations of the above makes it all work Sometimes the "clatter" of Paul Lytton turns in some odd way into a rollicking groove in the head and heart - when he never ever plays a straight groove.

For pure groove based (rather than saying "swinging" since well you know the rathole that discussion can go down) free jazz, the above recommendation for Exploding Customer's first release hits my sweet spot as well For me, here are some recordings that demand to be heard: AALY Trio + Ken Vandermark: Live @ The Glenn Miller Cafe Any DKV trio discs - Live in Wels/Chicago and/or Trigonomtry - then if you love the band - either of the recent box sets on not two records Clusone Trio: I am an Indian Trio 3: Live in Willisau (1992) still the finest recording from Lake, Workman & Cyrille David Murray Octet: Ming - powered by the great Steve McCall BassDrumBone: March of Dimes Gerry Hemingway Quintet: Special Detail - I chose the earliest hatART recording as it is the most rambunctious and teetering on madness. William Parker Quartet: O'Neal's Porch - or go directly to the fairly recent 8 CD Wood Flute Songs box which captures the same quintet down the road by 5 to 10 years in various live performances augmented by more musicians on 4 of the 8 discs. Worth way more than the $60 or so it takes to buy it.

Two sets: 9:00 & 10:30 Third time the quintet is playing at the venue. Nasheet Waits was scheduled to be playing with the quintet for the first time. Previous drummers I saw were Gerald Cleaver & Billy Mintz. Nasheet no longer listed BUT there is ONLY one drummer I would rather see with the band and his name is listed below: Mat Maneri - viola Lucien Ban - piano Tony Malaby - tenor saxophone (maybe soprano as well?) Bob Stewart - tuba RANDY PETERSON - drums As great as Nasheet is (especially live as his power in a little room is nothing short of mind boggling), Randy Peterson live with Mat & friends has always been a very unique experience beyond the words I have. Get Ready to Receive Yourself

I am located in San Jose, Ca. Forty miles south of San Francisco. I am sure there are some excellent musicians who perform in San Francisco. I'm from New Jersey so I'm NOT familiar with the performances in your area. Edited adding NOT

So many wonderful current jazz improvisors No one quite like the Art Ensemble of Chicago but.... Where are you located? Many great musicians performing live as well.

Who says the music I love is filled with "far-out wierd noises"? You do!!! Young people who are into rock or techno or hip hop will not and do not necessarily hear a tenor saxophone being played brilliantly which might include altissimo or overblowing as "far-out wierd noises". Your stereotyping and generalizations about music you are barely familiar with can only be matched by the volume of words you apply to denigrate such music. These potential new listeners might, in fact, find more subdued or historical forms of jazz limited in sound and not nearly aggressive, bracing, striking or intense enough based on many modern forms of music that include many sounds/approaches that they have listened to - sounds that the free jazz and avant-garde masters have incorporated into their music over the past 50 years. Why the best of these forms remain vibrant, fresh and alive. Because they are still in the process of creation. Often seemingly timeless - but if one's ears are open, the music is there to be heard. This is exactly why you don't give current potential jazz listener's ears the credit they deserve. Many are much more likely (as I was 25 years ago) to be more turned on by current jazz/improv than historical music - let alone by sorry ass recreation of such music. Certainly rock fans who listen to hardcore or metal or alternative have a much larger chance of hearing something in the DKV Trio or Atomic or Tony Malaby or The Bad Plus or Trio 3 or Peter Brotzmann than some Lindy Hop band. Blood and Guts, baby

I didn't start listening to jazz until I was 31-32. Before that my only ancillary exposure was hearing and liking Birds of Fire and Inner Mounting Flame maybe when I was 20-22 and I simply moved on. A guy named Don Van Vliet mentioned a few names in an interview I read and they included Cecil Taylor and Ornette Coleman I didn't start with them but I bought Kind of Blue, Mingus @ Antibes and Waltz for Debby. Liked 2 of the 3 and it was intrigued Well You Needn't from Monk's Music sealed the deal. I then investigated backwards and frontwards - more frontwards as I wanted to know what existed in 1994 or 1995. It never occurred to me that this music was oly historical once I read the Penguin Guide as they seemed to treat it less nostalgically than I was reading elsewhere. Then I found jazz central station after having found black saint, hat art, Leo and found out Andrew Cyrille lived a town away and Oliver Lake made a record with him and Reggie Workman called Trio 3 Live in Willisau and to me it was as great as any of the great old records so I learned to love it all. Then I saw them live Then a few of us from the old board saw quite a few of them. We saw Joe Maneri, Brotzmann Tentet, Andrew Hill, David S Ware, Gerry Hemingway, Barry Guy, Evan Parker. We loved it like it was 1948 @ Birdland. No musical background in my house, my school, etc. I sought it out myself

What is swing? What is free jazz? peace and blessings

AEC: Les Stances a Sophie Braxton: Dortmund (Quartet) 1976 Roscoe Mitchell: Old/Quartet And the bonus recording is simply my favorite Fred Anderson record with only Fred from the AACM: Blue Winter

Can anybody discuss the actual music? How does the quartet function differently with Blackwell? Is there a difference between the 1959 dates and the later dates? How about compared to the later blue notes? Lordy fucking Lordy

My idea regarding the word or descriptor "timeless" is that an artist's work in the non linear continuum can become timeless from the perspective of his or her work in the 90's, 00's or 10's might all meld together as one or almost be interchangeable despite ironically that musician growing or changing throughout that time. It might seem incongruous but I think there is some truth to it. Ellery Eskelin's more recent music or Gerry Hemingway's more recent music might be different in some ways than it was in the past - but it is still all of the same person. Just as stages in the overall musical arc have been broken or mixed around, so it goes with musicians. It may seem the same or it may not. I hear Drake's drumming as altered from 15 years ago - not sure but I think so. I imagine when Hemingway reprises (hopefully) some of those great 90's pieces on August 1st that they will be as fresh as they were 15 to 20 years ago - but they won't be the same. That quartet/quintet music to my ears is "timeless" whether anyone is listening to it in a hundred years. Jazz fans today - even serious ones - have not even listened to it yet. Standing on a Whale Fishing for Minnows

You know that for me, I really don't care if it is called jazz or not. Certainly there are strains of SME (as one example) that stretch or even break some line between jazz and something else. What we agree on is that it is radically different. The "swing" element of the drummer and bassist is deliberately eliminated thereby obfuscating or disowning any seeming connection to the great American jazz tradition. What has happened is that some of the later (or second generation) improvisors have reconnected some jazz influences back into the music. Paul Dunmall and Mark Sanders are two examples - listen to Mujician's Birdman to hear a clear free jazz recording that has rock and EFI influences. There are many recordings/musicians/bands that cannot be pigeonholed as Clifford states above. The AMM story is purely one on another plane where the music is almost anti-jazz - yet some musicians in or associated with the group over the past almost 50 years play jazz or jazz related music(s).

In my view, EFI was a direct result of certain musicians deliberately separating what they were doing from the jazz tradition. Deliberately not playing the rhythmic and melodic devices that were still part and parcel of the more traditional American Free Jazz scene/movement at that time. So severe a break it was (looking at it in hindsight), it really was a factor in breaking the music up into different lineages. I have always thought of Evan Parker as a post Coltrane tenor saxophonist whose history/career ran independently of guys like Frank Wright, Charles Brackeen - and later on David Murray or Joe Lovano. There was almost no connection between this musicians except for Derek Bailey's Company interacting with some of the more outré American jazz guys like Braxton, Lewis and Zorn. Maybe I am looking at it more symbolically than it was in actuality, but EFI in some ways was the first purely radical improvisational movement that reacted against the tradition - with efforts not to incorporate forms that were pretty much a given in any sort of jazz - from trad to free jazz of that era. Now there are many musics within musics that add/subtract elements from all sorts or parts of the tradition. This focus and "narrowness" of approach opened up a timelessness in much of that music. A timelessness that exists in the best of all music. Yeah, I know there was an attempt to radically redefine improvisation on their local, white (importantly) terms. However, I take its actualization on those terms with some grains of salt. Each case is different, too - there's a fairly wide gulf between, say, "Collective Calls" and the Schlippenbach Trio/Quartet. One could say the same about AMM of the Gare/Prévost persuasion (jazz) and the Cardew/Rowe persuasion (aleatoric and heavily electro-acoustic), and I find the SME to be very much jazz music, even at its most abstract. I also find pretty much all of it to be jazz music. I do think my (our collective?) ears may have been opened/altered/assuaged over years of listening to better hear things like Quintessence as a jazz record. Place us in 1971 or 1972 or 1973 being there and one wonders what we are thinking or hearing. We all know friends who were listening heavily to the Loft scene at that time and may have been a bit exposed to Bailey, Parker, Stevens et al - but that exposure was very limited at that time. Would love to have experienced being involved in the local scene in 1972 and then taking a plane to hear Schlippenbach Trio and/or Tony Oxley playing those tunes with Derek Bailey and see how I would have responded to that. It is violently different music - just as to me - EAI is radically different than any other improvisation I had heard before Weather Sky or Schnee or Dach.

In my view, EFI was a direct result of certain musicians deliberately separating what they were doing from the jazz tradition. Deliberately not playing the rhythmic and melodic devices that were still part and parcel of the more traditional American Free Jazz scene/movement at that time. So severe a break it was (looking at it in hindsight), it really was a factor in breaking the music up into different lineages. I have always thought of Evan Parker as a post Coltrane tenor saxophonist whose history/career ran independently of guys like Frank Wright, Charles Brackeen - and later on David Murray or Joe Lovano. There was almost no connection between this musicians except for Derek Bailey's Company interacting with some of the more outré American jazz guys like Braxton, Lewis and Zorn. Maybe I am looking at it more symbolically than it was in actuality, but EFI in some ways was the first purely radical improvisational movement that reacted against the tradition - with efforts not to incorporate forms that were pretty much a given in any sort of jazz - from trad to free jazz of that era. Now there are many musics within musics that add/subtract elements from all sorts or parts of the tradition. This focus and "narrowness" of approach opened up a timelessness in much of that music. A timelessness that exists in the best of all music.

I was at two of the earlier festivals - maybe 1997 or 1998??? Saw Max Roach solo, Randy Weston's African Rhythms, Jimmy Heath Big Band, Milt Jackson Quartet and Benny Carter (with Al Grey) Those were the highlights. The highlight was and remains in my head and heart was seeing and hearing Benny Carter - I think he was 89 or 90

I like this post, Allen The lack of a lineage in this music IMO started in force with what is now (maybe historically) termed European Free Improvisation (EFI) Up until that point there was still much cross pollination within/between the "mainstream" and "free jazz" camps/viewpoints. Art Taylor and Philly Joe Jones as some famous example of classic jazz drummers consorting with the outcats. Sure we have later example like Ed Thigpen playing in John Lindeberg's stellar 1990's groups or even now Billy Hart making an appearance with the Maneri/Ban quintet but for all intents and purposes, there have been a split or splits between different strains of jazz or improvisational music. It has become more notable especially within the mainstream that the avant-garde musicians are rarely or ever included within whatever continues to exist in that area. It was notable that Paul Motian would include younger musicians from various backgrounds in his ensembles no matter what their connection to the lineage was. Much less true for the stalwart mainstream musicians. Same guys, same frameworks, therefore to my ears, very little real excitement. The excitement and innovation occurs on the margins. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I remember first hearing Ellery Eskelin's trio with Andrea Parkins and Jim Black. Live and on record. Very fresh, exciting and truly new. Music as exciting as that does exist. As Allen mentioned it is hard to find the needles in the haystacks. Most of the musicians I follow closer than others still put out recordings that don't measure up. Self editing seems to have always been a problem with recorded jazz. Look at some of the very rote 1950's blowing sessions. Some of those that are collected with some fervor!!! I have found that live shows by great musicians are pretty typically pretty damn great.

I recently read that he was suffering. The memories of discovering Flying Teapot, Angel's Egg and You back in ~ 1980 or so are priceless. And my favorite - the 1976 Live recording Vive le Gong - Gong est Mort - with some powerhouse performances of the true Gong classics I think I'm buying the farewell recording just because..... RIP to a true free spirit,,,,

My pal Travis is fired up to see Open Loose on April 25th. When it comes down to it, Bev is correct - it's a false narrative. The actual music being played (at least the sort of current jazz I'm most interested in) can be astounding, exciting, original, innovative or all of the above. What is missing is many jazz fans don't see enough live jazz to realize the vibrancy of the current music and musicians. So what if it is played in small rooms. Well of course it would be nice - but pretty sad jazz listeners don't take advantage to see great bands/musicians playing in small rooms. Then they would play more often and in larger rooms. Don't give me the $$ angle. We have listeners here paying fortunes building collections of music from the past who rarely support the music where it lives and where is best heard - up close and personal in live settings Giants Walk this Earth Get Ready to Receive Yourself

Electro Acoustic Improvisation is *much* less popular than jazz

What if a musician had clearly racist views of African Americans analogous to Atzmon's extreme views on Jews? Any doubt he wouldn't have a venue to play in? In Manchester or anywhere else?

Heard him once. Last December on a Sunday night with Ray Anderson's Pocket Brass Band in front of a small crowd. He was incredible playing like he was 40 years younger. Afterwords, he was joking that that was all he had for the night. Being it was 2 sets playing *that* music, pretty incredible he played what he played. I'm very blessed to have experienced that night. Seeing someone on the trumpet in their musical prime at 70. Fwiw, I doubt he needed that gig - I'm sure he did it for Ray and for the music God speed - RIP sir

I'm as close to an objectivist as posts here, I think However, I couldn't tell you the 10 greatest drummers ever or playing today. I can tell you a few playing today who are among the greatest who ever sat behind a kit, but that would simply raise hackles.

Btw - my wife thinks either Nasheet Waits or Hamid Drake are "The Greatest Drummer in the World" She usually changes her mind after she sees one or the other