What place in jazz will Fusion hold?

[JSngry]

Brad, no sense in "arguing" about the merits, or lack of, rap/hip-hop, other than to suggest that A)what is heard in the "mass-media" is not all that there is to the genre (especially lyrically) and that B)what is most likely to be attractive to the jazz ear of future generations is the production techniques and the resultant rhytmic structures, not the lyrical content. The Beatles certainly influenced a generation of jazz musicians, but not to make "yeah, yeah, yeah" music. That was not the strength of their music - the melodic curves and harmonic twists were, and that's what I think had their musical impact, such as it was.

Similarly, I'm hearing LOTS of things on the local jazz radio ( www.kntu.fm )by young artists that incorporate the feel of drum samples and the stop/start rhythmic techniques utilized by DJs, and these are bands using real players in real time. I've even heard a big-band piece that uses real samples (how's that for an oxymoron!) as part of the arrangement's overall instrumental texture. It's a "sound" that these folks grew up hearing as part of the fabric of their everyday life, and as such, it comes natural to them.

My point about "getting used to it" was simply that, like it or not, rap/hip-hop is the most pervasive popular music today (for quite a while actually), especially among "urban" youth, and that, as such, it is only natural that certain elements of the genre will work their way into the work of young jazz artists who come to the music trying to do something other than re-create past styles (and this influence has been going on for more than a few years, actually. The whole M-Base thing is a notable - and older - example, but it's far from the only one). I meant "get used to it" as in "it's going to happen whether we like it or not" rather than "learn to like it".

Edited June 5, 2004 by JSngry

[Brad]

I see your point your point Jim. It's inevitable that whatever people are listening to and find appealing will find its way into jazz inevitably. That's how we got soul jazz I'm sure. Change is always a good thing and our music is a dynamic living organism so change is necessarily a good thing.

[JSngry]

Well, yeah, and the beautiful thing about this music is that it can accomodate "outside" influences at all ends of the spectrum, from the "populist" to the "intellectual". You can hear hip-hop influences currently coming into the music at both ends.

Myself, I have an open mind on the matter, simply becasue any music that really grabs me by the cojones is inevitably spoken in the "native tongue" of whoever is making it. I dislike the misogynistic/misanthropic bent of so much popular rap/hip-hop as much as anybody, but the some of the production techniques of even the vilest stuff opens up new "perceptions" in terms of linearity, overall structure, layering of textures & rhythms), etc. Since I'm of the opinion that "form is the final frontier" (at least until new harmonic systems and non-linear rhythmic structures) become lingua franca for the general populace, these things intrigue me apart from the context in which they are found, they stimulate my imagination as far as how I can bring these same structural perceptions to a music that I can play.

And I'm an old fart! Imagine how natural it must be for a younger person to go there, somebody who grew up with that stuff being what they heard as a matter of course, in some instances for all their life. Of course, all these "remix of classic jazz" projects so often (but not always!) smack of gimmickry, but that's going to be the case until the end of time. A more organic integration of these things is inevitable, I think. "We" don't have to like it, but "we" ain't the future!

Stay tuned...

[chris olivarez]

When I've thought of fusion someone like Mahavisnu or RTF but as some posters have already pointed out it's really more encompassing then that limited genre.

[Guy Berger]

To come right to the question, what do YOU have against Fusion, Hardbopjazz?

Nothing, but when you hear jazz played on the radio, it's rarely fusion being played.

Let's switch the words around a bit: "When you hear music on the radio, it's rarely jazz being played."

[Bright Moments]

2 words: tony williams

B)

[Hardbopjazz]

To come right to the question, what do YOU have against Fusion, Hardbopjazz?

Nothing, but when you hear jazz played on the radio, it's rarely fusion being played.

Let's switch the words around a bit: "When you hear music on the radio, it's rarely jazz being played."

Yeah, rarely jazz of any kind. That's why the Internet is great. Can at least find places like this and internet raido.

[chris olivarez]

2 words: tony williams

B)

Right on!!!! Williams,McLaughlin and Young was the first ''fusion" I remember hearing.