The Grateful Dead Dark Star

[John L]

Yes, DP 36. . . great stuff.

But . . . I stop at '78. I have tried and tried and tried. .. I just don't get into Brent, either his playing or singing. Maybe one day. . . not bloody likely.

I would probably be a lot more interested in the Brent years if there weren't so many great Keith shows available.

I think that one of the most overlooked element in analyzing the Dead by period or style is the keyboardists. The proto-dead (65-68) is fueled by Pig's often minimalist organ work, a style that often lent itself more to psychedelia than blues. Constanten's work was definately trippy--kind of a churchlike sound that helped float the guitarists along; not a lead so much as a color fill. Still, nice, and it fit the early Dark Star format. Keith--well, now you're into a major change. Obviously jazzier, and the switch is from organ to acoustic piano. The man could play several styles, which was perfect, as the Dead were playing all sorts of stuff. His only negative side was, of course, Donna. The 72-74 Keith-dead and the 76-78 Keith-dead are also different as he changed his textures to meet the new format. Brent--well, Brent seemed to me to be more pop oriented, more into the melody than the previous keyboardists. Like Lon, I just don't like that sound. Sorry!

Bruce added a beauty and texture to the melodics of the tunes and jams. Vince---beats me.

But if you slice up their career, it seems to fall into segments which are governed by the given keyboardists.

One of the things I love about Keith is his big ears. He was always tuned in completely to where the Jerry and band was going, and pushed them on in very complimentary and subtle ways. I haven't heard that many Brent shows. In what I have heard, however, he strikes me as doing mostly his own thing and challenging the band to adjust to him. I also didn't find what he does to be all that interesting.

But part of my preference might be subjective. My last live Dead show was Winterland: 12/31/78.

[orchiddoctor]

Interesting, too, how Jerry used him in the JGB quite often.

As for me, I got off the bus on 12-06-73, Cleveland Public Hall, with a 45 minute Dark Star that scared the f'''ck out of me.

Just seemed to drift away at that point into all that "free" jazz. Coltrane, the AEC, especially Roscoe Mitchell. I guess that by that time, the Dead were playing arenas and the initmacy was fading for me. Probably my loss.

Also---the release of "Steal Your Face" made me think the band really sucked by then.

Edited November 17, 2006 by orchiddoctor

[orchiddoctor]

Vintage Piggers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz1okjsw560

[John L]

Interesting, too, how Jerry used hin the the JGB quite often.

As for me, I got off the bus on 12-06-73, Clevelqand Public Hall, with a 45 minute Dark Star that scared the f'''ck out of me.

Just seemed to drift away at that point into all that "free" jazz. Coltrane, the AEC, especially Roscoe Mitchell. I guess that by that time, the Dead were playing arenas and the initmacy was fading for me. Probably my loss.

I just heard 12-06-73 for the first time last month: an absolute killer! 12-06, 11-11, and 12-02 are making a case with me that late 73 might have been the Dead's absolute peak.

[orchiddoctor]

And now for some snappy breakfast reading:

http://www.gratefuldeadmusic.com/

This be the new Rhino/Dead page with all sorts of useless stuff and sales pitches. Stay tuned. . . .

[jazzbo]

Ah yes, the Playboy After Hours resurfaces.

Not enough Ron on camera, but at least someone was caught dancing!

[Tony Pusey]

Steal your face was also the one one that had me giving up on the Dead, also seeing the coke fueled shows at the Ally Pally in North London as documented on a less than stellar Dicks Pick. And so the love affair came to an end, as of course they all do eventually...

[Chalupa]

Interesting, too, how Jerry used hin the the JGB quite often.

As for me, I got off the bus on 12-06-73, Clevelqand Public Hall, with a 45 minute Dark Star that scared the f'''ck out of me.

Just seemed to drift away at that point into all that "free" jazz. Coltrane, the AEC, especially Roscoe Mitchell. I guess that by that time, the Dead were playing arenas and the initmacy was fading for me. Probably my loss.

I just heard 12-06-73 for the first time last month: an absolute killer! 12-06, 11-11, and 12-02 are making a case with me that late 73 might have been the Dead's absolute peak.

I tend to agree. Fall of '73 is my favorite period. Hell the whole frickin' year is tremendous.

[orchiddoctor]

Ah yes, the Playboy After Hours resurfaces.

Not enough Ron on camera, but at least someone was caught dancing!

Look down a few clips for Hard to Handle--check Pig's shirt--and New Speedway Boogie, etc.

Jerry looks so stoned on the HtoH as he picks up the lead and searches for the sound.

[jazzbo]

Oh cool, I'll watch those when I can later.

[John L]

11-30-80, a smoker. I was down in the "front row" (the orch pit was empty) across from Brent, he was dishing some swirl that evening, try that SB > FOTM, a killer.

Based on your enthusiasm, I gave this a listen over the weekend. Pretty spectacular, indeed! I had never heard a Brent show quite like this one.

Looks like I am going to have to give post-78 a bit more attention.

[orchiddoctor]

11-30-80, a smoker. I was down in the "front row" (the orch pit was empty) across from Brent, he was dishing some swirl that evening, try that SB > FOTM, a killer.

Based on your enthusiasm, I gave this a listen over the weekend. Pretty spectacular, indeed! I had never heard a Brent show quite like this one.

Looks like I am going to have to give post-78 a bit more attention.

As much as I admire the post '73 years as having moments of excellent playing, I, too, could never get behind Brent. Like Dan, I was at that show; but unlike Dan, I was highly disappointed. Go to Heaven had just been released (if memory serves me well); I didn't like it all that much--except Althea. Mind you, I hadn't seen the band in seven years to boot. I went out of curiosity and because the fabulous Fox Theater is such a great venue--a restored histrorical theater--gorgeous. I think it holds only a few thousand people.

Anyway, I had heard about the acoustic sets and hoped they would do one here. No such luck. They opened with Feel Like a Stranger--uggh. Disco Dead. I couldn't get into it. Still, the other 4,999 people did, so it must have been me!

That was my last Dead show.

I wish I could have enjoyed it more.

Dan--was that you in the pit twirling?

Okay: confession. I downloaded the tape a few years ago (I like to have the shows I went to), and it does have some fine moments. Yes, that SB---FOTM is great.

Edited November 20, 2006 by orchiddoctor

[John L]

11-30-80, a smoker. I was down in the "front row" (the orch pit was empty) across from Brent, he was dishing some swirl that evening, try that SB > FOTM, a killer.

Based on your enthusiasm, I gave this a listen over the weekend. Pretty spectacular, indeed! I had never heard a Brent show quite like this one.

Looks like I am going to have to give post-78 a bit more attention.

As much as I admire the post '73 years as having moments of excellent playing, I, too, could never get behind Brent. Like Dan, I was at that show; but unlike Dan, I was highly disappointed. Go to Heaven had just been released (if memory serves me well); I didn't like it all that much--except Althea. Mind you, I hadn't seen the band in seven years to boot. I went out of curiosity and because the fabulous Fox Theater is such a great venue--a restored histrorical theater--gorgeous. I think it holds only a few thousand people.

Anyway, I had heard about the acoustic sets and hoped they would do one here. No such luck. They opened with Feel Like a Stranger--uggh. Disco Dead. I couldn't get into it. Still, the other 4,999 people did, so it must have been me!

That was my last Dead show.

I wish I could have enjoyed it more.

Dan--was that you in the pit twirling?

Okay: confession. I downloaded the tape a few years ago (I like to have the shows I went to), and it does have some fine moments. Yes, that SB---FOTM is great.

In addition to SB - FOTM, I thought that some of the Jerry Garcia ballads came off very well that evening: Bird Song, Ship of Fools, It Must Have Been the Roses.

For me, virtually every Dead show has its share of dead moments. Feel Like a Stranger comes off no worse with me than most of the Bob Weir Tex Mex/Cowboy numbers that were played to death since 69. And Bob Weir's R&B numbers can really make me long for Pigpen.

[vajerzy]

Putting the breaks on for a moment.....

I bought the 1st GD box set (WB albums)and finally got around listening to Europe '72 this morning....and I noticed Cumberland Blues sounded a little fast. I FF to Sugar Magnolia (track 9) and this too sounded sped up- Weir sounded like he was on helium.....Jack Straw, He's Gone, etc.- same thing. Now I've been listening to Dick's Picks and other sources and I haven't listened to Europe '72 at least 10 years....so am I crazy?? Does this whole remastered CD sound weird and faster to anyone else?

[Chalupa]

Putting the breaks on for a moment.....

I bought the 1st GD box set (WB albums)and finally got around listening to Europe '72 this morning....and I noticed Cumberland Blues sounded a little fast. I FF to Sugar Magnolia (track 9) and this too sounded sped up- Weir sounded like he was on helium.....Jack Straw, He's Gone, etc.- same thing. Now I've been listening to Dick's Picks and other sources and I haven't listened to Europe '72 at least 10 years....so am I crazy?? Does this whole remastered CD sound weird and faster to anyone else?

No you're not crazy. The sped up the whole album when it was originally released. They also overdubbed a lot of parts.

[vajerzy]

Thanks Chalupa- you would think they would fix it and play it at the correct speed- it's been such a long time since I last heard it and I wasn't into the Dead as I am now. I'm with Orchiddr- let's see a Europe '72 box set!!

[orchiddoctor]

Thanks Chalupa- you would think they would fix it and play it at the correct speed- it's been such a long time since I last heard it and I wasn't into the Dead as I am now. I'm with Orchiddr- let's see a Europe '72 box set!!

Interesting. Can't say as I've noticed the speed issue, but I've been listening to it since Fall of 1972!

You can find out what shows the basic tunes came from and compare. If I find the time (ha!), I will look in Dwork's book and see if I can list some of them.

Meanwhile, they are pretty much all available at speedingarrow.net, albeit in MP3.

Like it matters to my older ears, I've found many of them--some recently upgraded on shnflac.net, gdlive.com, bt.etree.org, and dimeadozen.org.

Are there any really bad shows from that run?

But I would still jump on a box set.

[jazzbo]

Speeding Arrow now requires one to register at the forum there before use. . . .

I threw residual precaution to the wind and registered this morning. Haven't had it "approved" and put in place yet.

[Chalupa]

As far as Europe '72 official releases go I like Steppin' Out With the Grateful Dead the best. No overdubs, no fooling around w/ the mix, just as nature intended it to be. And some serious ass kicking jams to boot!

[orchiddoctor]

As far as Europe '72 official releases go I like Steppin' Out With the Grateful Dead the best. No overdubs, no fooling around w/ the mix, just as nature intended it to be. And some serious ass kicking jams to boot!

Agreed. Plus that bs cut in the Truckin'------Morning Dew where the let Phil hit a few bass notes to "end" the first part. To think that the whole piece is Truckin--The Other One--drums--Other One--Morning Dew--Other One--Sing Me Back Home. Obviously, that would have filled all six sides!! If any of en't heard the whole thing, by all means do so.

Other songs/dates

4-08 Cumberland Blues

4-14 Brown Eyed Women

5-03 China cat--Rider, Tennessee Jed, Jack Straw

5-04 Sugar Magnolia

5-24 It Hurts Me Too, You Win Again

From www.deadbase.com

Lon, now they've got you where they want you. You are doomed to spend the rest of your days downloading endlessly! Nyah, nyah!

Edited November 21, 2006 by orchiddoctor

[jazzbo]

Hey, I resemble that remark!

[orchiddoctor]

To one and all:

Have a happy and a safe Thanksgiving.

[jazzbo]

You too Bill! I'm thankful for our friendship.

[orchiddoctor]

You too Bill! I'm thankful for our friendship.

Amen to that, bro.

[orchiddoctor]

Trying to blow fire--or at least hot air--into a fading thread.

Favorite show? Favorite attended show?

Objective on the first, subjective on the second..

My favorite:

Damn, I had to ask that! 3-01-69 or 2-14-70 come to mind. Wonderful abandon, flying by the seats of their pants. The gigs are about a year apart, but reflect the growth of the band from psychedellic cowboys to melow tunesmiths with monster, slightly more controlled jams.

Favorite show attended. I was at 2-14-70 (and yes, Owsley, there were two shows), and it was a scortcher. Everyone--I mean everyone, band included, was blown away. But my first show is my best memory. 1967 at the Cafe Au Go Go in New York. I had been exposed to the burgeoning counter culture by a few misfit friends, but listening to records and going into the belly of the beast were two different things.

The Village was vibrant with discovery, ripe with potential, ready to ignite. And ignite it did. While Frank Zappa held court upstairs as the house band at the Garrick Theater, the grimy, scroffy Dead, led by the Pig, were something to behold. The Cafe itself was down a flight of stairs that were painted Jackson Pollack style with day glo. Oh, I had smoked marijuana for the second or third time (I was 15), so this was like entering some sort of new dimension. Then the amps cranked up and the boys took out their artillery and bombarded us with a noise that seemed as if it were some sort of alien blessing. I remember Viola Lee Blues in particular--seemed to go one well past the usual 2 minute 59 mark--and everyone dancing frantically in a tribal stomp. The room was relatively samll--Lesh describes it in his book. We actually--literally--felt the music slam into us like waves.

Talk about yer epiphanies. I know that I was not alone in walking down the stairs, a curious middle class Manhattanite, and floating back up the stairs a few sets later, a born again hippie. Born again not just because of the music but because Captain Trips hung outside between sets smoking various substances and pontificating on the meaning of it all. And don't think that we didn't listen up.