I admit it, I'm confused.

[rockefeller center]

I would like to apologize to Bluerein.

[Clunky]

I always buy the US versions of Fantasy and BN cd's because of the better printed artwork but now there seems to be another reason to do so......

and just to be clear that reason is......not CP ... but something else....Have I got that correct?

[couw]

I always buy the US versions of Fantasy and BN cd's because of the better printed artwork but now there seems to be another reason to do so......

and just to be clear that reason is......not CP ... but something else....Have I got that correct?

we had a similar discussion on board krypton, where it was mentioned that McMasters pressed in Japan sounded better than those from the US. If disks pressed in the US then sound better than those pressed in the EU, go figure. Luckily I have dirt in my ears and don't hear these subtle nuances, or maybe I would on the right equipment, but I am happy in my ignorance...

this does deserve some attention from the powers that be though

[Bluerein]

I meant with new Toshiba releases the newly recorded ones not the reissues so Hans you're correct as always.

And indeed the other reason for buying US printed and manufactured cd's is NOT the CP thing but the pressing plant quality.

Cheers,

Reinier

[Swinging Swede]

Yes, but I wasn't talking about blame or responsibility in the compatibility issues. It's a fact that problems with copyprotected CD usually happen with players that have a DVD drive.

Sure, but if a player is designed in compliance with all existing standards, is it then correct to say that it is causing the non-playability? The way I saw it when wolff asked, and the way I still see it, it just isn’t. But language is a fuzzy instrument sometimes (especially when it’s foreign), so maybe we just interpreted the words differently. I don’t think we view these matters very differently really.

The best way to avoid problems is not to buy copyprotected discs (this would also show the industry that copyprotection is not the right way).

Agreed 100%. Buying this format means supporting it, which I can’t see why any consumer in his right mind would want to do. It’s one thing when a new format is introduced, which is better in some aspects than the older, like SACD and DVD-A. But Cactus discs offer no advantages whatsoever for the consumer compared with CDs, but plenty of disadvantages, and serious ones at that. Here is a revealing post a guy posted on the Steve Hoffman board:

I have a Meridian DVD player which has an OSD function which lets you see how many errors it has to correct on CD's. Usually none are reported unless the disc has a fault, but on a copy protected version of the Kings Of Leon CD it was in the millions before the end of the first track, which can't be a good thing from an audio point of view.

Yikes. Not a format I would want to support.

[wolff]

The best way to avoid problems is not to buy copyprotected discs (this would also show the industry that copyprotection is not the right way).

Agreed 100%. Buying this format means supporting it, which I can’t see why any consumer in his right mind would want to do. It’s one thing when a new format is introduced, which is better in some aspects than the older, like SACD and DVD-A. But Cactus discs offer no advantages whatsoever for the consumer compared with CDs, but plenty of disadvantages, and serious ones at that.

The people who pay attention to these issues and understand them are a very, very small percentage of consumers. It will take manufactures, labels, etc. and their lawyers to sort this out, I'm afraid. The public domain issues are also like this. The average consumer has no idea what is happening.

[couw]

couw likes music, but couw likes his wallet as well. ordering these disks in non CP format from the states is an option, but german custums are very good at their work and eager to please, and even if they wouldn't throw on another howmanypercentisitanyway, the disks would come more than twice what I pay for CP disks when I get them from this side of the Nile. couw proceeds to copy the disks to CDr which gets rid of the baked in errors and that's that.

sure these disks are probably more sensitive to bad handling, but I don't handle them bad. sure these disks may not play on a DVD player, but I don't have a DVD player. sure these disks may skip on my diskman, but the CDr copies don't. sure there are many complaints about this CP scheme affecting sound quality, but thus far they have not been solidified other than in highly subjective opinions; and in my highly subjective opinion, the music on these disks is pretty good and I have no complaints about the sound either. and sure I may be termed out of my right mind when I buy these disks, but hey, I'm a lazy bastard with a slim wallet and I want to hear my music. fussing about inaudible sonic differences and NOT getting the music because of that is silly too. and that is what it would amount to for me I am sorry to say.

lovely to know that these can be had for twice the money in non-CP form from across the globe, but whereas I may have a problem with a copy protection scheme per se, in practise it isn't all that big as it does not affect me in any way other than that an equally empty wallet means more disks in my racks. I respect the hell out of you all for your crusade to boycot and not buy these, but it's too rich for me to go elsewhere and I want to hear some new stuff anyhow every now and then.

[wolff]

couw likes music, but couw likes his wallet as well. ordering these disks in non CP format from the states is an option, but german custums are very good at their work and eager to please, and even if they wouldn't throw on another howmanypercentisitanyway, the disks would come more than twice what I pay for CP disks when I get them from this side of the Nile. couw proceeds to copy the disks to CDr which gets rid of the baked in errors and that's that.

sure these disks are probably more sensitive to bad handling, but I don't handle them bad. sure these disks may not play on a DVD player, but I don't have a DVD player. sure these disks may skip on my diskman, but the CDr copies don't. sure there are many complaints about this CP scheme affecting sound quality, but thus far they have not been solidified other than in highly subjective opinions; and in my highly subjective opinion, the music on these disks is pretty good and I have no complaints about the sound either. and sure I may be termed out of my right mind when I buy these disks, but hey, I'm a lazy bastard with a slim wallet and I want to hear my music. fussing about inaudible sonic differences and NOT getting the music because of that is silly too. and that is what it would amount to for me I am sorry to say.

lovely to know that these can be had for twice the money in non-CP form from across the globe, but whereas I may have a problem with a copy protection scheme per se, in practise it isn't all that big as it does not affect me in any way other than that an equally empty wallet means more disks in my racks. I respect the hell out of you all for your crusade to boycot and not buy these, but it's too rich for me to go elsewhere and I want to hear some new stuff anyhow every now and then.

I stand corrected, even some people that know what is occuring do not care for one reason or another.

[couw]

did you read my post or is that a gun in your pocket?

[rockefeller center]

the disks would come more than twice what I pay for CP disks when I get them from this side of the Nile.

You could spend the saved money on CD sprays.

[wolff]

I read that your wallet does the talking, just like most consumers. And, you have no desire to join the crusade to stop non-Redbook Standard Cd's from being sold.

What did I miss? Like I said in my first post, "I'm dense".

If you have anything else to add regarding the subject of my original post, have at it.

[Claude]

couw likes music, but couw likes his wallet as well. ordering these disks in non CP format from the states is an option, but german custums are very good at their work and eager to please, and even if they wouldn't throw on another howmanypercentisitanyway, the disks would come more than twice what I pay for CP disks when I get them from this side of the Nile.

I think that's exagerated.

Here's my situation, in Germany the options and taxes are comparable.

Option 1: order CDs from CDuniverse at preorder price (all new RVGs are usually on sale). 4 discs at a time, which is a trade-off between the risk of being "caught" by the customs and minimizing shipping cost.

4 RVGs: 4x$8.5 (preorder price at cduniverse)

+ shipping $11 (airmail)

= $45 = 37.3 Euro = 9.3 Euro/CD

If customs "catch" it, add 20% (15% VAT + customs tax) on the value of the CDs. Final cost: 10.8 Euro/CD

In the last 2 years I made more than 20 orders at CD Universe, only 5 of them were taxed by customs. But even if I had to pay customs every time, the cost would be similar to CDs bought here.

It takes 5-10 days for cduniverse shippings to arrive.

Option 2: Order european (copyprotected) CDs from Amazon.de: 10 Euro/CD (no shipping cost)

The european CDs are usually available several weeks after the US releases. So you need to wait longer and you get a flawed disc.

Option 3: Wait until the european CDs are available at Zweitausendeins: 7 Euro/CD

However this is not certain to happen with every RVG batch, and it takes again several weeks more until 2001 has them in stock.

couw proceeds to copy the disks to CDr which gets rid of the baked in errors and that's that.

Not everybody can do that, one needs a CD or DVD drive in the PC that can read copyprotected discs.

And it's illegal to do that (new european copyright law)

Edited July 29, 2004 by Claude

[couw]

I read that your wallet does the talking, just like most consumers. And, you have no desire to join the crusade to stop non-Redbook Standard Cd's from being sold.

What did I miss? Like I said in my first post, "I'm dense".

If you have anything else to add regarding the subject of my original post, have at it.

You missed that I let my ears do much of the talking too. Like I wrote, these disks DO NOT pose a problem for me. Of course I could then stand tall and save the rest of the world. But I'm a weak, spine- & heartless bastard I guess.

Much of this seems a big knee-jerk from the music loving communities. All I have read up till now is "hooo, the did something to it, it HAS to be bad for the sound." Well, it isn't. You make it sound as if non-redbook standard CDs are like pissing on the scriptures, I'm not that much of a fundamentalist. I need to have fun in my life too.

Of course I let my money do the talking, but I am not any different than any of the other consumers, also here on this board, who keep complaining that CDs are too expensive in general. You may of course look down on me, but I cannot be bothered by that, really. As a poor sod, living in a foreign country, who will not even get a credit card from his bank, ordering from overseas is not as easy as for all you rich people. More things you will not understand I am sure.

So now, if YOU have anything of substance to add, let me have it.

[rockefeller center]