blowin in from chicago Vol 2 in the 70s

[Hot Ptah]

Moving on, I wonder if Sun Ra was known to be authoritarian and controlling with his musicians, so that he would not have allowed Gilmore to record with others just for the sake of being in control.

I wrote a review for a Sun Ra concert for my college paper, and tried to talk to Arkestra members or Sun Ra himself before and after the concert. I was not allowed to do so. A non-musician spokesman was designated to take my questions and call me back with the answers. I recall that as I was milling around the near-backstage area, as close as I was allowed to get to backstage, before the concert, two Arkestra members were fearfully gulping down some booze. They were looking around in obvious discomfort as they did so. I asked them what was going on and they said that the booze helped them relax, to be able to perform, but that they were scared that Sun Ra would see them. These were two gray haired guys, and they were visibly anxious about it.

It reminded me of the descriptions of Vince Lombardi in Jerry Kramer's "Instant Replay", where offensive linemen would hide ice cream cones behind their backs if they thought that Vince was near.

Does anyone have any information about this topic?

I've been lurking on this thread from the beginning...didn't have the energy to jump in...but I have a few thoughts. Would like to ask Hot Ptah first, though, if you were into Sun Ra enough to have wrote a college paper on him and if you have read Szwed, do you you still feel that this aspect of his behavior and that of members of the Arkestra need more clarification and explanation? Please take this question at face value. I can respond to you but I'd like to know if you think that Szwed, for instance, did not sufficiently explain Sun Ra in this regard.

Ed Rhodes

I think that Szwed provided descriptions of how Sun Ra locked a drummer in the closet for drinking wine, kept Arkestra members at marathon rehearsals even when he was falling asleep at them--there was some information about the controlling side of his nature.

I wanted to bring the thread back to the initial question--why would Sun Ra prevent John Gilmore, who had been with him for decades, from participating in musical activity with other musicians? We got off track from that question. I do not know if Szwed adequately explained that specific question. I have a genuine question about whether the controlling side of Sun Ra's nature explains it completely, or whether there is another explanation. I hoped to bring out someone who really knows.

About my college paper experience--I was a grad student at the time and sadly beyond the days of being able to write a paper on a musical topic. I spent a good deal of time talking to Richard Davis that year--he ran the jazz studies program--and he had only warm, happy things to say about Sun Ra. To him, Sun Ra was one of the nicest, smartest people he had ever met. He knew Sun Ra in Chicago, pre-Arkestra days.

[ghost of miles]

I think that Szwed provided descriptions of how Sun Ra locked a drummer in the closet for drinking wine,

I just came across that passage today. The speaker is James Jacson, describing the very first Sun Ra rehearsal that he ever attended:

When I sat down in the back of the band I noticed there was someone behind me in the closet. Every once in a while I'd look back and he'd still be in there. At one point he asked Sonny if he could get something to eat. Sonny sent him into the kitchen to get some food off the stove, and once he'd eaten, he told him to get back into "jail." After a while Sonny told him to come out, and he started playing drums. He was a hell of a drummer! And I thought, what kind of a band is this!

Afterwards Sun Ra told Jacson he was punishing the drummer for not leaving "Sweet Lucy" alone--a reference Jacson first took to mean women, but later learned actually meant wine.

Edited September 4, 2006 by ghost of miles