Buying a certified used car from a dealer

[Peter Johnson]

Thinking about pulling the trigger on a new car (my wife's car is 14 years old, mine is 12), and we have our eyes set on a few lease-returns with low miles at dealers. I get the sense prices for such cars can be flexible, so do any of you have experience knocking some zero's off?

Thanks in advance!

[Dave James]

IMO, lease returns can be a pretty good deal. The seller is looking to move these cars and I think you can say that, in general, they've been well maintained. Nonetheless, I would never even think about buying any used car without one of those reports on the vehicle history. I think it's called Certifax or something like that. Most reputable dealers will run these for you free of charge.

Up over and out.

[catesta]

Used cars can be tricky.

With a new car you can usually determine (if the don't show you) what the invoice is. With a used car you never know what they have into it.

Do some research on what the cars book value is, and don't just check Kelley.

Most of the cars advertised as lease returns are actually cars bought as auction that have been used by rental companies. Nothing wrong with that, except we all know how people treat rental cars. These days is not a huge issue though, since they all normally still have warranties.

If the dealer has a decent reputation and the car looks good you should be okay.

Hit them low.

Since there is no factory money on a used car , the dealer will at least try and cover his hold back, so he will make a profit on it, as they should.

If they are asking $20K, I would offer $15K. They will tell you no, and the game will begin. You've got to think they have at least 15-20% in the car, if the dealer is smart.

In the end it's all a matter of whether or not you feel you made a good deal.

You may also want to re-consider new vs. used. The used car market in my area is soft, since new cars have all the incentives. With the finance rates and rebates available, sometimes you come out ahead going new.

[catesta]

IMO, lease returns can be a pretty good deal. The seller is looking to move these cars and I think you can say that, in general, they've been well maintained. Nonetheless, I would never even think about buying any used car without one of those reports on the vehicle history. I think it's called Certifax or something like that. Most reputable dealers will run these for you free of charge.

Up over and out.

Good advice.

Carfax is the vehicle report service.

[jazzypaul]

The other thing to look for, if you're getting a certified car, is the warranty. Up until my most recent VW, all of the other ones had been certified used VW's, and they came with balance of factory warranty plus another 2 years/24K miles bumper to bumper. It's not a bad deal. GM offers something along those lines, but I know that GM won't really dicker on their certified used cars either.

(edited to mention...although I'm on my sixth VW, and I love them, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone else...us VW fanatics are, how do you say it...masochists...)

Another place to go is rental car companies. Those cars are VERY well maintained, and they've already gotten a ton of money out of them, so the prices are always excellent. I was inches shy away from picking off a Land Rover from the local Enterprise dealer as it only had 25K miles on it, and they were only asking $17K for it. Sadly, my parents were co-signing on the car to get me a better interest rate, and my mom's response was, "no way in hell do you get a Land Rover before I do!!"

I was back at the VW dealer in a half hour...

Edited September 29, 2004 by jazzypaul

[Shrdlu]

I've got two good recommendations:

(1) Get either the AAA or another independent mechanic to go over the vehicle; the AAA charges a fee, but it's worth it.

(2) Go for a Volvo. I have owned them since 1974, and they are built to last. (Not the horrible 300 and 400 series though, I mean the 200s, 700s, 900s etc.) These last so long that the price of a used one is within reach of an ordinary mortal like me, and you can always get parts, both from dealerships and from salvage yards and people who "break" cars.

My current one is an '86 760 GLE station wagon, and I'm not about to part with it. It goes like a bomb, still.

[Peter Johnson]

(2) Go for a Volvo. I have owned them since 1974, and they are built to last. (Not the horrible 300 and 400 series though, I mean the 200s, 700s, 900s etc.) These last so long that the price of a used one is within reach of an ordinary mortal like me, and you can always get parts, both from dealerships and from salvage yards and people who "break" cars.

My current one is an '86 760 GLE station wagon, and I'm not about to part with it. It goes like a bomb, still.

Funny you mention it! Gail currently drives a 1987 240 that's been in my family since it was new. 189000 on the clock. 2 big problems: the main seal is deteriorating so it leaves oil everywhere, and it's terrible in the east coast winter weather (rear wheel drive). She often drives alone at night to/from Northeast Philadelphia (on call), so reliability and winter safety are the key factors. And getting someone else to pay for the depreciation is also a goal.

She really wants an SUV (higher driving position, and she used to drive a Jeep Wrangler, so she's SUV-driving capable), and we've narrowed our choices down to the X5, Touareg, Grand Cherokee and possibly the Discovery (anyone with experience with these, please weigh in!)--all of which (except for the Jeep and Disco) are really elevated all wheel drive station wagons. We've found a 2001 lease return x5 with under 20k on the clock; with such low mileage, I'm not sure how much I'll be able to dicker on the price. But we need to get it before the bad weather hits--at that point I'll have NO negotiating room!

[jazzypaul]

I've been near or around some of these...

Land Rover Discovery -- This is the one I wanted to buy, and it's a beast. However, buyer beware as Land Rovers always end up near the top of the JD Power worst cars of the year awards. I was hoping Ford ownership would straighten this out a bit, but to no avail. Don't get one unless you can get a mother of a warranty.

VW Touareg -- Man, I lay down this blanket warning on all VW's, as I've had quite a few of them: know what you're getting into. VW's are easily the best designed cars on the road. However, they're fairly unreliable, and usually at the worst times. And if you don't have a top notch mechanic, you're in for some real trouble. Finding a good mechanic has been half of my problem on my GTI. I wouldn't recommend a VW without knowing the service team first.

Jeep Grand Cherokee -- I don't know if you had any tranny problems with the Wrangler your wife had, but Chrysler transmissions are notoriously unreliable after 60K. I had a Car Max dealer talk me out of one of these because of that. That said, my uncle has one, and I've borrowed it a few times when the VW was in the shop and I needed to haul drums. I LOVE driving this truck.

Personally, I'm a big, big, big fan of the Explorer and the Montero Sport. I've heard bad things about the Montero, but I had one as a rental for about a month and a half, and I loved, loved, loved it. Also got to borrow a buddy's Explorer while he was on vacation and my car had just been totalled by...a guy in an Explorer... I thought it was a great ride. The buddy in question had abused this truck like nothing else I have ever witnessed, and it still started up for me with no problems, and I drove the thing across the state with nary a buzz, blink or smoke. I was sold on them after that.

[catesta]

If you are really considering the X5, you should look at the Mercedes M class as well.

You will not be disappointed. All things considered, the price is good.

Ford Explorer is a great mid size SUV.

Volvo has the XC 90, but I have no idea what they sell for used.

[BERIGAN]

check out consumer advocate Clark Howard's site on buying a used car....I know he is against buying a leased car, but more from the get go than buying one that was a leased car...

http://clarkhoward.com/library/tips/used_car.html

[Peter Johnson]

Catesta, I agree the M-class is good value. Unfortunately, Gail's not into it--not sure whether it's body style (not the prettiest, I have to admit) or perceived "snob factor", but I don't think it's an option since this will be her daily driver.

[Jazzmoose]

I can't stand it anymore...

It's good that you're going for a certified used car; some shady dealers have been known to slip in a new car when you think you're getting a used model...be vigilant!

We now return you to the intelligent discussion...

[Rooster_Ties]

(1) Get either the AAA or another independent mechanic to go over the vehicle; the AAA charges a fee, but it's worth it.

Amen to that. Take any used car you want to buy to a trusted mechanic, and have them go over the thing from A to Z. Also, be sure to have them do a compression-check on the cylinders. (OK, maybe not for a 2-year old “program” car. But for any car over four years old – do have a compression-check done. It only takes a couple minutes to do, and can reveal potential problems with seals, and burning oil, even relatively early in a car's life.)

Most shops will charge you about $25 to $50 to check a used car, bumper to bumper – and many have a preprinted checklist that they use when doing such a check. The last time I bought a used car, my mechanic must have checked over 50 things on the car, and gave a letter-grade to each item (A, B, or C) --- so I knew exactly what I was getting into, in terms of repairs that might be expected on the horizon. BUT, be sure you take it to a mechanic you trust, cuz you don’t just want a big list of everything that isn’t “perfect” on the car.

[Brad]

I tend to distrust used cars. You're buying someone else's problem in my view. Who knows if it's a lemon, regardless of whatever report you get. Since it's for your wife, I'd invest in a new one. The Highlander is nice. We just looked at that for my wife, although she eventually decided she wanted another Camry.

I looked at some of Toyota's suvs and they looked nice. However, I've got a few years to go on my present car.

I also don't like leases because I like to feel I own something and I don't want to have to worry about breaching this covenant or that covenant.

[Free For All]

It sounds like you're looking for something bigger, but my wife and I LOVE our '04 Subaru Foresters. No complaints whatsoever. About 20K new (unless you go for the turbo).

[Shrdlu]

Peter, I think some of the more recent Volvos have front-wheel-drive. (I know that the 400s do, but they are trash. My son had one, and it was a nightmare. I don't consider the 440s as real Volvos.)

Brad, if you buy a new car, it drops thousands in value the moment you drive it out of the showroom. Better to buy a car after that drop. Although a used car can definitely be a lemon, these can easily be avoided if you get the car checked carefully, and/or buy from a place that you know. All my cars, except one, have been used. I guess the fact that nearly all were Volvos had something to do with it.

Another recommendation: Toyotas have been superbly reliable ever since they first appeared in the 60s. There are other good Japanese brands: Datsun and Honda rate pretty well, I hear. I have never owned a Japanese car myself, though.

Avoid: all French cars! The guys on "Car Talk" were right when they said "It's sad that the Peugeot has been discontinued in the U.S. - we can't ridicule them anymore."

[Jazzmoose]

Sigh. My first car when I got out of the Navy was a Volvo P1800. Damn, I miss that car!