sidewinder Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 which is the best rendell/carr? i got "change is' but have no idea how this one is compared to the rest. i like it, don't love it. the harry beckett "flare up" is growing on me though as is the nucleus album "roots". I like both 'Shades of Blue/Dusk Fire' and 'Phase III/Live' on the BGO releases and can recommend them both equally. Great value also with two rare original LPs in each case on one CD. Possibly the latter would be the first one I would go for, although 'Dusk Fire' is a gem and should not be missed. Haven't heard 'Change Is' yet but hope to pick that one up real soon. Another recommendation by the way would be that 'Get Augerized' compilation CD with Brian Auger's Oblivion Express. Looks to have lots of good stuff on it, including the material with Julie Driscoll/Tippett. Saw an old TV film of 'Wheels On Fire' quite recently (taken from Top Of The Pops) and it looked pretty damn good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 I'd never even heard of 'Willpower'! It's mentioned in the 'Impressed' sleeve notes and I may once have seen a copy in the racks about 25 years ago. Very rare apparently and has Ardley, Norma Winstone, Ian Carr and a whole load of other Brit jazzers doing a 'Bardish' suite, hence the 'Will'. I've recently seen a copy sell for £250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 (edited) I'd never even heard of 'Willpower'! It's mentioned in the 'Impressed' sleeve notes and I may once have seen a copy in the racks about 25 years ago. Very rare apparently and has Ardley, Norma Winstone, Ian Carr and a whole load of other Brit jazzers doing a 'Bardish' suite, hence the 'Will'. I've recently seen a copy sell for £250 I clearly didn't read the notes carefully enough...it was the small print, your honour. Now you mention it I do recall the Shakespeare reference. I'm really curious to hear some of Michael Garrick's jazz and poetry Argos which don't seem to be among the plans. Poetry And Jazz In Concert 2 LPs 1963 ARGO ZDA 26/27 (UK) Michael GARRICK [piano]; Joe HARRIOTT [alto]; Shake KEANE [trumpet]; John TAYLOR [bass], Colin BARNES [drums], Laurie LEE & Jeremy ROBSON [reader] Before Night/Day LP 1966 ARGO EAF 115 (UK) Michael GARRICK [piano]; Jeremy ROBSON [poet]; Coleridge GOODE [bass] ; Joe HARRIOTT [alto]; Ian CARR [trumpet]; Colin BARNES [drums] Jazz Praises At St Paul's LP 25 Oct 1968 AIRBORNE NBP 0021 (UK) Michael GARRICK [piano]; Joe HARRIOTT [reeds]; Art THEMEN & Jim PHILIP [tenor, clarinet, flute]; Joe HARRIOTT [reeds]; Ian CARR [trumpet, flugelhorn]; Coleridge GOODE [bass]; John MARSHALL [drums]; Chorus of St Michael's - Peter MOUND [conductor]; John SMITH [poet] Poetry And Jazz 2 LPs 1969 ARGO ZPR 264/265 (UK) Michael GARRICK [piano]; Art THEMEN [reeds]; Dave GREEN [bass]; Trevor TOMKINS [drums]; Ian CARR [horn]; Don RENDELL [saxophones]; and seven POETS Mr Smith's Apocalypse LP 1971 ARGO ZAGF 1 (UK) Michael GARRICK [organ]; Don RENDELL [flute, saxophones]; Art THEMEN [flute, clarinet, saxophones]; Henry LOWTHER [trumpet, flugelhorn]; Coleridge GOODE [bass]; Trevor TOMKINS [drums], Norma WINSTONE [vocals]; John SMITH & George MURCELL & Betty MULCAHY [speech]; CHORUS [Taken from a full list of Garrrick's LP recordings here: http://www.jazzscript.co.uk/extra/garricklps.htm] Not a complaint. Six of these long lost recording brought back to life is a treat in itself. Edited November 14, 2004 by Bev Stapleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 No mention of the Keith Tippett Group so far?!?! This and their next, Dedicated to ou, but you weren't listening were my most often played British LPs at the time. Both are on CD from Disconforme, maybe dubbed from LP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 On the Garrick tip, this one, while not earth shattering, is certainly worthy of checking out. The remastered sound, as a bonus, is excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Some details of the live '70s Hatfield CD are now available here: http://www.hatfieldandthenorth.co.uk/ Looks like a mixture of live and BBC recordings. I once had some of those BBC recordings on tape! First of a series they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man with the Golden Arm Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Any comments on Stan Tracey's 'Under Milk Wood'. (Timeline for re-issue?) That solo from Bobby Wellins on "Starless and Bible Black" from the GP Impressed 2 is right up there with Henderson's take during "Lazy Afternoon" from 'Basra' ... absolutely stunning - can't rotate it enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 A great record - iconic status in the UK! There's another version from 1976 with Art Themen on sax and a narrator reading short extracts from the play. I heard that one first after seeing a performance; the Wellins version I came to much later. The Themen version gets little mention (and is currently unavailable) but I love it. There's also a more recent recording from a live gig (again with narration). The Wellins version, however, is the one the fuss is all about. Great disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 westbrook's "metropolis"-this is what i was looking for! good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingus_ahum Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 do you know of a link to a site to find out what CDs are in that series and also somewhere good to order them? i was interested in checking out neil ardley for sure. Check out www.bgo-records.com for Ian Carr and Don Rendell records Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 ok shalom so now i have listened to a lot of brit stuff lately- so i decided i am not a big soft machine fan. i guess i am not crazy about mike ratledge's organ tone though i like hopper's bass tone a lot. the organ just goes right to my brain-and elton dean isn't a particularly soulful horn player to my ears. so soft machine is a little too stiff for me. i do like volumes one and two but that is in a different world. the stuff from 5 with phil howard is nice though-it is too bad he didn't last very long. nucleus on the other hand-i have been digging everything i have heard. the live stuff from bremen 1971 is great and i have heard just about all the BGO stuff too. i like it all. the rhthms are a little, uh, stiff too, but the grooves are nice and creative and i really like the layering of different sounds. heady mixes. this lead me to check out ray russell live at the ICA (he was the guitarist on the bremen material). this stuff is a little too skronky for me though. not crazy about it. i also heard graham collier's darius album. this is pretty cool. sort of mellow but good soloing and i like the use of electric instruments (guitar and e-piano). the horn soloists are great too-including someone named derek wadsworth on trombone i never heard of who is nice. i heard mike westrbrooks solid gold caddilac 2-fer on BGO and don't like it at all. too all over the place and dated sounding. too experimental i guess. i dunno... metropolis still rocks though. i also checked out some neil ardley. i wasn't crazy about the greek symphony thing. not sure why but it just didn't move me. but i also heard kaleidoscope of rainbows and it is awesome. it really is life affirming and beauitful. again, nice use of electric instruments. it seems like british 70s jazz was better at using electronics in creative and not overtly commercial ways when compared to american jazz of this time period. as i said in another thread, i also checked out trevor watts amalgam band album innovation. this is an interesting album. it is sort of a grooving free album. hard to explain. it has keith tippett on it but also propulsive percussion. i also heard amancio dasilva's integration album and didn't love it. sort of like the greek symphony thing, it just didn't grab me. i guess i like the more fusion-ey stuff. and though it isn't jazz, i heard khan's space shanty album which i have wanted to do for a while and found it lacking. sort of cheesy. hillage's solo albums are better i think, as was the arzachel album with many of these same musicians. also not jazz, but totally blowing my mind, is the old german band agitation free. i heard two albums on the garden of delights label and they are excellent excellent space rock. i guess next i will order some more ardley straight from his website. perhaps the herbe CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 (edited) I'm obviously in the minority here but I have a hard time with any Soft Machine record made after the second one. I'd rather listen to the first two Ayers (Joy of a Toy, Shooting at the Moon), Wyatt End of an Ear, or any other more psych-related efforts. That fusion stuff turns me way off. Edited December 31, 2004 by Brandon Burke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 no i mean i agree when it comes to soft machine. there brand of fusion seems especially stiff. though i do like some of 5. i think john marshall is a stiff unfunky drummer, which works in some settings, but not in the soft machine setting (imo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 (edited) It's the usual different ears stuff. I have a hard time with Nucleus. Always sounds like a jazz group with a glued on rock section. I thought that at the time (didn't have any of their records but I saw them once), listened to none of it for 30 years, and then bought some of the reissues. It still sounded awkward! Whereas the Soft Machine still sound totally fresh to me in their Third to Sixth phase. I really like Ratledge's sound. I suspect alot of this is a case of 'you had to be there at the time!' My judgement of the Soft Machine is heavily clouded by how evocative their sound is of a formative time in my life. I think you have to treat 1 and 2 as almost by a different band - a song-based rock band. From Third onwards they became something else (and after Seven something else again which I don't care for). I prefer Greek Variations to 'Kaleidoscope of Rainbows'; once again its the heavy rock beat that takes away a little of the enjoyment for me. Good record though. Solid Gold Cadillac is unrepresentative of Westbrook. He loses the 'rock' thing completely after Citadel/Room (mid-70s). **************** One problem of perception here might be in that term 'funky'. If you are looking for 'funky' in UK jazz you are generally going to be disappointed. White Brits doing 'funky' can be pretty embarrassing. Its quite interesting. I heard this stuff before I heard American 'fusion'. I care little for most of that, largely because of its tendency to need to 'get down'. I suspect both types of music require a distinct realigning of ears to really warm to. Edited December 31, 2004 by Bev Stapleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 well i dont like american funky fusion in the sense of mostly anything from 1975 on. i mean funky in the way "on the corner" is funky. not something to dance to, but propusive. i mean these are a bunch of british white people and i would imagine i would not want to hear them tackle "places and spaces" type material, but you know what i mean. i mean i would call westbrook's "metropolis" funky too. i guess i misuse the word. but i like nicely propulsive stuff. and in "metropolis" whenever the bassline kicks in, i smile. and enjoy the horn solos floating over the top of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Interesting. To my ears, that's the weak point of Metropolis. The 'jazz-rock' bits. Listen to Love Dream Variations from 1976 and that has all gone! The odd thing is that it's those 'jazz-rock' moments on the early 70s Westbrook's and nearly all of Nucleus that I hear as 'stiff'. The same think happens on Keith Tippett's Centipede's 'Septober Energy' - most of it is very freewheeling but at two points the obligatory (for the early 70s) 'jazz-rock' kicks in. Far less interesting to my ears. I can never really warm to Bill Bruford's recent 'jazz' recordings for the same reason. All enjoyable enough, with their moments. But the drumming is still very 'rock'. I like it all much looser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Guess which members of the original King Crimson lineup actually got laid....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.