Daddy Dearest

[Randy Twizzle]

Today's NY Times has a heartfelt tribute to Artie Shaw from his son Jonathan:

"My father was a deeply miserable human being," Jonathan Shaw said in a telephone conversation yesterday. "That's the side of him that most people who haven't been closely associated with him don't get to see. He was a genius, and he was also a very difficult man."

Where was his brother Steve?

"God only knows," Jonathan Shaw said, adding that he had written a long letter and sent a copy of his manuscript to a post office box address, but had never heard back.

"According to Artie's version," he went on, "when my brother first went to visit him, my father said, 'What do you want? You're nothing but a biological happenstance to me.' He had said the same thing to me. I just made it difficult for him to dodge me."

Jonathan Shaw was estranged from his father for most of his life, he told us. Then, about two years ago, he made contact and spent a year with him. When Jonathan Shaw started having a relationship with his own son, he said, his father cut him off.

"I got to know him very well and we had some great times together," Jonathan Shaw said, "but bottom line is that he was absolutely unable to maintain a relationship. He was abusive, condescending, mean-spirited. I felt it was to my advantage to maintain the relationship because it was in many ways cathartic, but no one with any self-respect will put up with that kind of abuse."

So he was not with his father when he died? "No," Mr. Shaw said. "He died alone and miserable, as he chose to do."

[DTMX]

They probably would have communicated a little more if Hallmark made "Happy Birthday, Biological Happenstance" and "Happy Holidays, Deeply Miserable Human Being" cards.

[patricia]

How terribly sad.

[Dan Gould]

I don't care how great a musician he was, he sounds like he was a sorry excuse for a human being.

[Bright Moments]

i don't know dan, ya can't believe everything you read!

of course 8 marriages, all ending in divorce, does not speak well for him.

[Dan Gould]

i don't know dan, ya can't believe everything you read!

of course 8 marriages, all ending in divorce, does not speak well for him.

And he was certainly known for a sharp tongue, and "biological happenstance" sounds like something he'd say.

I know what you're saying, Evan, but the picture rings true for me.

[BruceH]

None of what his son says comes as a surprise. Shaw was known to have driven away every friend he ever had. Artistic brilliance and personal cussedness often reside in the same human being... So what?

[Use3D]

hmmm

[Jazzmoose]

I know what you're saying, Evan, but the picture rings true for me.

From the stories I've heard (particularly his 'brave act' of hiring Billie Holiday then refusing to stand by her when they toured the South and she couldn't get into the hotels and such), I'd have to agree. I'll listen to his music, but I wouldn't have invited him over for tea or anything...

[patricia]

I love Shaw's music and I think that it's not surprising that he is regarded as one of the greats of Jazz.

However, he is much like many people in that he didn't seem to see the big picture and realize that our lives are over in a blink of an eye. Touching people in a positive way doesn't come easily to some, but it costs the same as alienating them.

We will still have his music, but it's sad that he chose to be a jerk and that's how people close to him will probably remember him, while carefully qualifying their opinions with praise for his contribution to Jazz. So there's that.

Edited January 7, 2005 by patricia

[RDK]

However, he is much like many people in that he didn't seem to see the big picture and realize that our lives are over in a blink of an eye. Touching people in a positive way doesn't come easily to some, but it costs the same as alienating them.

We will still have his music, but it's sad that he chose to be a jerk and that's how people close to him will probably remember him, while carefully qualifying their opinions with praise for his contribution to Jazz. So there's that.

Well said, Patricia.

[Noj]

I wonder if we're any relation, I'm a Shaw.

[Brad]

Geniuses doesn't necessarily equate to a well adjusted person.

[JSngry]

However, he is much like many people in that he didn't seem to see the big picture and realize that our lives are over in a blink of an eye.

Call me myopic, but living 90-something years in the years that he did it is more than a blink. It's more like an unending stare.

Not to quibble, mind you.

[Jazzmoose]

I wonder if we're any relation, I'm a Shaw.

Hey, it's possible; have you never received a birthday card from him? If so...

[Leeway]

but bottom line is that he was absolutely unable to maintain a relationship.

Not only with other people, but with his art as well, as he walked away from it too, and cut himself off from further artistic development.

A philosophical question: can so mean-spirited a person have produced truly great art? or are we responding to his technical ability more than any profundity in his art/music?

[BERIGAN]

I know what you're saying, Evan, but the picture rings true for me.

From the stories I've heard (particularly his 'brave act' of hiring Billie Holiday then refusing to stand by her when they toured the South and she couldn't get into the hotels and such), I'd have to agree. I'll listen to his music, but I wouldn't have invited him over for tea or anything...

Ever hear of June Richmond? Jimmy Dorsey had her on his records 4 months(at Least) before Artie recorded one whole song with the much more famous Holiday.

Does anyone know of an earlier date than March of 1938 of a black singer recording regularly with a white band???

[BERIGAN]

but bottom line is that he was absolutely unable to maintain a relationship.

Not only with other people, but with his art as well, as he walked away from it too, and cut himself off from further artistic development.

A philosophical question: can so mean-spirited a person have produced truly great art? or are we responding to his technical ability more than any profundity in his art/music?

The short answer is yes. Frank Rosolino was a very mean spirited man(At least his last act on earth was) but man, could he play beautifully. Miles Davis admitted beating up women , didn't he??? We know how he played the trumpet. Artie Shaw was more than a technican.....how people can be so beautiful in one respect, and ugly in another, is beyond my understanding.

[JSngry]

how people can be so beautiful in one respect, and ugly in another, is beyond my understanding.

I'll say it again (aka "my stock answer") - for some people, art is not an expression of who they really are, but who they'd like to be if only they could.

[catesta]

how people can be so beautiful in one respect, and ugly in another, is beyond my understanding.

I'll say it again (aka "my stock answer") - for some people, art is not an expression of who they really are, but who they'd like to be if only they could.

I just retired my box of crayons.

[RDK]

"Do I contradict myself?

Very well, then I contradict myself,

I am large, I contain multitudes."

- Walt Whitman

[kenny weir]

Frank Rosolino was a very mean spirited man(At least his last act on earth was) but man, could he play beautifully.

Berigan, I know you've qualified this, but still ...

I can't claim to be any expert on Rosolino, but in exploring the byways of WC jazz in the past few years I have listened to a lot of the man's music (yes, it's beautiful) and read quite a lot about him.

The impression I have gained is that at least part of the reason the murder/suicide was so shocking to those who knew him was that it was so out of character. Mean spirited? Not from what I've read. The grisly end seems hard at attribute to mere mean-spiritedness anyway.

Edited January 8, 2005 by kenny weir

[Jazzmoose]

I've never heard anyone describe Rosolino as meanspirited before either. Bad example, I'd say.

[patricia]

However, he is much like many people in that he didn't seem to see the big picture and realize that our lives are over in a blink of an eye.

Call me myopic, but living 90-something years in the years that he did it is more than a blink. It's more like an unending stare.

Not to quibble, mind you.

Ninety years of pushing people away. What that tells me is that Shaw was so insecure in anything but his music that he depended on it as his sole contribution. What a shame. He seemed like a very intelligent man and he certainly was charming enough to attract some lovely women to marry him, if only briefly. The list included Lana Turner, Ava Gardner, Evelyn Keyes [she played the middle sister in "Gone With The Wind"] and Kathleen Windsor [who wrote "Forever Amber"] as well as four others, equally enviable. All were beautiful and accomplished in their own right. I suspect that, although trophy wives didn't have a name then, that's what they were.

For some reason he reminds me of a couple of my dearest friends who are almost loathed by many who know them. Although they also can be very charming and funny, there is something about them that is afraid of being vulnerable to anyone else. To have someone care for them and care back seems to be personally threatening to them.

Of course we all know that vulnerability is the nature of love, even friendship, but some people just can't give up any power.

I sure didn't know Artie Shaw, but he's not alone in being so insecure that he spent his whole life deliberately alienating those who tried to be close to him.

Very depressing.

But, we still have Artie Shaw's music.

Edited January 8, 2005 by patricia

[Bright Moments]

But, we still have Artie Shaw's music.

which, don't forget, he also pushed away.