Soul Stream Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Last night our Mayor Gus Garcia, in one last blaze of glory before he leaves office in a couple of weeks, pushed through a surprise "no smoking" ban in the clubs and restaurants of Austin, Texas. As a musician in a town that has seen landmark clubs close left and right due to a bad economy and unsupportive city council the last 2 years....this is about the last straw. Mind you, I'm a non-smoker and would love to play in smoke-free environments. However, I have to make a living. Smokers hang at clubs where live music is. Non-smokers hang at Starbucks and listen to CDs. These are huge generalizations, but when push comes to shove I think they are basically true at the core. Guess I better start looking for a job at Starbucks....latte' anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Yeah, another Austinite who is a little baffled. I'm a nonsmoker too who would prefer smokefree places, but I'm a lover of FREEDOM! Wait, does that mean I'm now considered an ultraliberal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 I've been going out more in Manhattan since our smoke ban, as I did in SF after it passed out there eight or so years ago. I have not noticed a decline in the number of bar/night club dwellers in either city, and I have found my nights out to be much more enjoyable. FWIW, I think being free from suffering the repercussions of others' ridiculously hazardous habits is one of the freedoms I cherish the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 The best jazz club in Kansas City is smoke-free (by choice), and there are several hip independent coffee shops in midtown Kansas City that are moving towards being smoke-free too. Come to think of it, I think the best blues/rock club in town is smoke-free too, or at least I don't remember any smoke the last time I was there in December. All this in a town (Kansas City) without any 'no smoking' laws. You might be surprised - there quite a few people that hate smoking and smoke-filled rooms - who refuse to go anywhere where smoking is allowed. Perhaps this will be something good for business in Austin?? Or perhaps not - depends on the area, I suppose. Good luck - let us know how things are 6-months from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted June 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 (edited) Increased patronage in a smoke-free nightclub is something i'd love to have (proponents always show staticstical evidence for this). however, realistically I think we'll see a major drop. I guess I'll find out in September when the ban goes into effect. Historically, vices have always fostered a good environment for music...booze, smoke, even drugs and (dare I say prostitues in other times). Without these things we may never have heard the many of the musicians we love so dearly now. Would Bird, Diz, Bud, Monk and others have developed without the "nightlife" people who patronized the bars they played? Before Carnegie Hall comes a lot of smokey clubs. Edited June 6, 2003 by Soul Stream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Here's a big vote to ban smoking from clubs and restaurants. Those guys can smoke outside and still listen to you, Soul Stream. The problem is that smokers affect the health of us non-smokers. It should not be done in public places. All the States and cities are moving to enact restrictive legislation on this. It is inevitable and you're going to have to get used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 (edited) This may be an unpopular opinion, but to me total smoking bans in bars and restaurants is ridiculous. If second hand smoke was as bad as they claim, wouldn't smokers be dropping dead before dessert is served? After all, they are getting two doses. The basic principal of toxicity. "Mere exposure does not equate to toxicity; it's the dose that makes the poison" I'm not a smoker, although I do light up a cigar from time to time, and may have a cig every once in a while. I don't care to be eating when someone is smoking, so I choose to sit in a non-smoking area. However, when I drink all bets are off. It should be the choice of the establishment owner, not the fucking PC city council, and Mayors. Edited June 6, 2003 by catesta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted June 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 let me just say that this initiative was undertaken by a single person....Mayor Gus Garcia...he wants a smoke free Austin to be his legacy (oh, VFWs, Bingo Halls and Pool Halls are exempt. they don't care about those people's health I guess.). That said, if this were a time of an economic boom, I wouldn't be so inclined to care. However, now's not the time to experiment imho. A smoke free world would be wonderful. It would also be nice to play music in concert settings instead of smokey clubs full of drunk people. However, until something changes, Budweiser and Marlboro make it possible for me to play music and get paid (meagerly). Banning drinking in public places would save more lives than any smoking ban will, but I don't think that will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrugs Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 (edited) The NYC clubs I have been to are just as packed as they were before the ban. And at least in Austin, it doesn't stay cold as long as it does in NYC. Smokers can pop outside for a fix. How many billions will die of smoking this century? The numbers were on TV recently. Scary. And oh my god how nice it is during a jazz concert at a bar not to have someone light up a smoke right behind you or next to you. I really hated it when it was hot. I am looking forward to smoke free concerts this summer. Edited June 6, 2003 by shrugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 (edited) We have several cities here that have smoking bans. The first was Tempe. I read a story in the newspaper a couple of weeks ago, that said almost a dozen bars have closed since the law was passed. The majority reported drops in sales. The average seemed to be about 17%. I realize that other factors could be responsible for this, but I am sure the ban is the major cause. The reaction to smoking bans always amaze me. Edited June 6, 2003 by catesta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted June 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 i've been quite a few very, very, very smokey bars. To the point where it is obviously a major health hazzard. However, to be blunt, these are usually "working class" beer joints where almost everyone is smoking. I don't think health is on anybody's mind here, they're chuggin' back huge amounts of beer and chain smoking. That's not the kind of place the majority of people who want a ban on smoking care about. What they're basically trying to ban is "nucence(?)" smoking. Like shrugs is talking about, 10 people in a bar of 150 who are smoking. Mildly bothering the few people in their immediate vicinity. Not a health hazzard, just an annoyance in today's bar scence where most people don't really smoke anyway. It bothers me, but not much (and yes I'm even "technically" alergic to smoke)...i'm in a bar! that's like bumming about getting wet at the beach. Until these same people ban alcohol (now we can talk about deaths and money spent), I don't buy their argument. I'm tolerant of many things, smoking and drinking are but two of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 ...i'm in a bar! that's like bumming about getting wet at the beach. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Perhaps the time is fast approaching when smoking will be banned on this board too!!! ************ If I'm in a pub listening to music smoking doesn't bother me and I've no wish to ban it. Now talking during the music...that I would ban! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 It would also be nice to play music in concert settings instead of smokey clubs full of drunk people. So that's the type of people who listen to your music, huh? No, really, I can't see the logic on how a ban on smoking in public places should take away your audience. Eventually, they'll filter back in. Catesta: we shall hear no more of your lengthy list of vices. Now be a good boy and counter some of Johnny's posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Catesta: we shall hear no more of your lengthy list of vices. Now be a good boy and counter some of Johnny's posts. Paul, you don't even want to hear my opinion on gambling, and hookers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Paul, you don't even want to hear my opinion on gambling, and hookers. You little scoundrel, you! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Now be a good boy and counter some of Johnny's posts. Hmmmm...., A Krugman ban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 that's like bumming about getting wet at the beach. I'd say it's more like bumming about stepping on a hyperdermic needle on the beach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonym Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Catesta, do you have any opinions about gambling on hookers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted June 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 It would also be nice to play music in concert settings instead of smokey clubs full of drunk people. So that's the type of people who listen to your music, huh? No, really, I can't see the logic on how a ban on smoking in public places should take away your audience. Eventually, they'll filter back in. Well, I hope you're right. But I've been playing in smokey bars a long time. They're smokey for good reason. The "Nightlife" people I play to... smoke. Plain and simple. I'm not saying all of them, but a good number. They're not affluent, educated people for the most part, just work-a-day folks and people that seem to live on the fringe of society. Let's face it, not many white collars stay out late till 1:30 on a wednesday night(unless it's a strip joint ). If affluent, educated and non-smoking people want to go hear live music 7 nights a week till 2 a.m., I can't wait.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 Everyone was up in arms when smoking was banned in bars here in California ("Welcome to California; if you're lighting up, it better be a joint!"), but the bars seem to be weathering the change pretty well. People don't go to bars to smoke, they go to bars to drink. Now, if they banned alcohol at bars, you might have a problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 This may be an unpopular opinion, but to me total smoking bans in bars and restaurants is ridiculous. .... Well, I like to fart, mine if I constantly fart while you are eating, or having a drink at a bar? Freedom is one thing, and you are right, at least short term, no one is going to die from second hand smoke... but then again, many drinkers ruin their liver, but it takes some time...their choice, at least I don't reek of booze cuz someone else has a drink next to me....I just hate, hate smelling of smoke the rest of the night because I was in a bar, or a poorly ventilated restaurant/club. Smokers have the freedom to smoke...outside(Except in some towns, and that is crazy) let me have the freedom to not cough, not need to put in eye drops, or having to shower before going to bed after being out on a Saturday night...Can you guess I dated a chain smoker at one time??? Kissing her was like liking an ashtray! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted June 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 Honestly, I'd love to work in a smoke free environment. I hate smelling of smoke when I come in at 2 a.m. and either have to take a shower or just sleep that way if I'm too exhausted. Plus it gives me a splitting headache the next day if I've been in a really, really smokey bar(which happens not often anymore, but enough to make it a drag.) So, maybe it will turn out better. As for now, in these tough economic times, I'm just afraid things will go from bad to worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 I recall a recent time when suddenly, with the stroke of a pen, one of my favorite albums became conspicuously dated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 Catesta: we shall hear no more of your lengthy list of vices. Now be a good boy and counter some of Johnny's posts. Paul, you don't even want to hear my opinion on gambling, and hookers. Heck, it's time to move forward on this and legalize prostitution. Let the state run it like a business....cut loose the low-life element (pimps), keep it contained in certain areas like it is in many european cities...run the mandatory health checks, etc. The Nevada model is even goofy imo because state law specifically excludes areas with high population densities (Tahoe, Reno & Vegas) .....but at least it's better than the present nonsense of having cops running oodles of sting operations, busting toothless hags on street corners, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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