AllenLowe Posted March 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 thanks, Clem - you and I are agreeing more and more these days (I like your comments about Kofsky and Ornette on that other thread) - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelius Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 "It is my old problem with jazz critics that they view this music from a vantage point that is far removed from the audience's experience." [DizzySpells] A critic is not obligated to the vantage point of the audience (what is "the" audience anyway?) but only to his own conscience. "It is a rather elitist stance [...]" No, it's not. "[...] that does contribute to informed discussion, but not much else." An informed discussion is a hell of a lot. Just contributing to that is plenty enough to put the "much else" on another day's to do list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rat Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 "It is my old problem with jazz critics that they view this music from a vantage point that is far removed from the audience's experience." [DizzySpells] A critic is not obligated to the vantage point of the audience (what is "the" audience anyway?) but only to his own conscience. "It is a rather elitist stance [...]" No, it's not. "[...] that does contribute to informed discussion, but not much else." An informed discussion is a hell of a lot. Just contributing to that is plenty enough to put the "much else" on another day's to do list. Well, yes, and critics of critics can only be held accountable to their own consciences, too, so be quiet! --eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelius Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 No thanks, Doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I'm like Sangrey, I respect and appreciate Brubeck more than I care to actually listen to him. But one thing I truly enjoy about his music is his sense of humor, and I wonder how much of that was inspired by Desmond's presence? I mean, you can truly hear how much they enjoy playing together. Having said that, the Carnegie Hall CD is an absolute MONSTER of an album!!!! Much as I see Brubeck except for one factor. I find Desmond too, (to be gentle), same-sounding All the time. I could take much more of Brubeck with a lot less of Desmond. And honestly, I do realise he is a fine alto saxophonist. Brubeck has a sense of humor that pops through. Desmond is constantly "inside himself" to a degree that lets little warmth or mirth shine through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Just read through this entire thread - in the past I shared Allen's disdain, even though I love Desmond and Joe Morello, whom nobody has mentioned.... After having seen Brubeck on Jazz Casual and the Ken Burns & Martin Scorcese series, and having talked to musicians who knew Brubeck, I have genuine admiration for him as a man. He really is one of the good guys. I think he had the good taste and sense to lead one of the great jazz ensembles for nearly a decade, enjoying commercial success unparalleled in modern jazz. I always resented him for that, and found his playing to be laughable. Still, I keep coming back to the records with Desmond & Morello (especially the great Carnegie Hall album), and in recent years I've been gobbling up the late 60's albums with Mulligan. Good stuff! We can tolerate his piano playing to hear the other guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Kat Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 I dont know if I really like Bru's piano playing, but I love his recordings. The Dave Brubeck Quartet was my favortite group all through 7th grade. I dug all those albums, especially Gone With The Wind, Time Further Out, and Time In Space. He had good arrangements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 I don't care much for the later stuff, which I find to be far too pretntious, but I really like the quartet recordings, and Desmond's presence contributed to that. As for his various experiments with time, I never paid that much mind, but there were, I admit, times when I wished Brubeck would do a little something in CP time, if you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Kat Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 How late? With Jack Six, Gerry Mulligan, and Allen Dawson, or in the 70's, when he played with his kids. I like all Brubeck, except very really early. Until Joe Morello joined the quartet, it was just west coast cool, nothing special. He added that spark to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Yes AND No to all of the above but.... isn't "In Your Own Sweet Way" a hell of a song? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 isn't "In Your Own Sweet Way" a hell of a song? Yes it is, and *The Duke* is a great tune as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 A musician I know who has known Brubeck a long time, once told me that the source of those odd time signatures that Brubeck sometimes employs is his Native American heritage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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