William Faulkner thread

[connoisseur series500]

I know that Joe Xmas is a Faulkner fan. Any others out there?

Faulkner was one of America's greatest writers. I find many of his works to be flawed, which should not be surprising given the chances he took in his writings. I have been disappointed by books like "Sanctuary," "As I lay Dying," which is a real bore, and much of his later stuff.

On the other hand, "Sound and the Fury" is an undoubted masterpiece; and "Light in August," "Wild Palms/Old Man," and many of his stories are virtual masterpieces as well.

I haven't read all of his work, but I've read much of it. One notable exception would be "Absalom, Absalom." Never read it and I think I was frightened away by its reputed difficulty. I've also read a biography of the great man. He was catankerous but what an artist!

OK, your turn Joe. Tell us about your favorites.

[Joe Christmas]

Get yer Snopes on!

Can't say much right now. The wife and I have another episode of 6 Feet Under cued in the DVD player. I'll be returning here often though.

To respond to what you've said so far, get on with Absalom. That book's a cakewalk compared to The Sound and the Fury, which you indicated you've read before. Where TSATF is wonderfully complicated, Absalom is contextually deeper, in terms of the characters and the evolution of a story that, stripped down, could be considered formulaic. You'd have to whittle it pretty far down to make it simple though. GREAT book. The other Faulkner freak here is shrugs, and Absalom is his favorite if I recall correctly. He's reading Blotner's Faukner bio right now so hopefully he'll chime in with some fresh insight.

[Jazzmoose]

Darn it, I give up. I just can't seem to get these stupid italics right. Anyway, I've read The Sound and the Fury several times, and really love it. Admittedly, this is the kind of book that gives English majors a boner, but I can see why. It's almost like reading a whodunit, what with puzzling out the clues and such.

Paul, I've been scared off of Absalom, Absalom as well, but maybe I ought to move that one up to the "on deck shelf" and give it a go...

[Guest Mnytime]

Who isn't a fan of the King of Yoknapatawpha County?

If you can make your way through The Sound and the Fury, which I agree is a masterpiece, you should have no problem with Absalom, Absalom, which honestly I didn't think that difficult.

Some great sites

http://www.mcsr.olemiss.edu/~egjbp/faulkner/

http://www.uhb.fr/faulkner/WF/

http://www.unf.edu/library/guides/faulkner.html

[connoisseur series500]

Not only have I read "Sound and the Fury," but I've read it around five times!! I once used it as one of the assigned novels when I taught an American Novel course in Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok when I worked there for three years. Imagine young proper Thai coeds reading that book when English is not their main language! I handled it by reading the book aloud sentence by sentence and tried to explicate every sentence along the way. Can you believe that? God, that book is a masterpiece.

I don't know if the young Thai coeds identified with Cady at all. Her ways would appear so foreign to them (unless there was a secret naughty side!)

I taught this course about 18 years ago, so I have forgotten much.

I've got two bios of Faulkner, one by Blotner and the other by a guy named, Karl, I believe. I read the Blotner bio.

"Sound and the Fury" is divided into four main sections. The first is told by Benjy in his idiot language; the second is a nihilistic and existential discourse by Quentin as he prepares to kill himself (I think.) The third section is both a shocking and humorous section told by Jason, and the final section is told by the black maid, Dilsey, who is the most rational and normal character. The story comes together in pieces and is repeated at times through the prism of the various characters. Brilliantly done.

This brings up a point...I remember Jimmie Baldwin criticizing Faulkner's view of the Civil Rights Movement, but I cannot recall what he thought of Faulkner's books. I wonder what black Americans think of Faulkner's negro characters. He was a Southerner and held many Southern views, but he was also an accurate judge of character. Anyone know anything about that?

[Guest Mnytime]

Don't forget with the Benji section there are also time shifts on top of his mentally challenged language for the PC out there.

By the way, the film of The Sound of the Fury really is bad.

Edited July 3, 2003 by Mnytime

[Guest Mnytime]

In fact Benji's section has no sense of time or place with all the jumping around it does. Another thing that makes the Benji section difficult is that there are two Maury's and two Quentin's. That Benji is called Maury up until 1900 than becomes Benji. The other Maury is his Uncle and mother's brother. The two Quentin's are Benji's brother who kills himself and Benji's neice who is the illegitimate daughter of Benji's sister Caddy.

Also, the second section happens I believe 18-20 years before the first section. Though Quentin's section takes place on the day he kills himself. There are flashbacks in this section as well. That Quentin kills himself over the loss of honor to the family caused by his sister losing her virginity.

It's in the Jason section that is told in "present time" that you find out that Quentin killed himself by drowning himself. That Benji was castrated. You also find that Jason is a sadist and how far the family has fallen since Quentin killed himself.

Now in terms of the last section I have friends who think it's supposed to be from God's point of view and not Dilsey since so much of it happens away from Dilsey. I have to admit that of my last reading I am leaning this way as well.

I should point out I have read this book about 12 times now.

Edited July 3, 2003 by Mnytime

[kenny weir]

Well said Mnytime - by someone who no doubt likes the twists and turns of modern jazz!

Strewth - I've tried and tied and tried to dig Faulkner. I like the themes of the books, and their settings, but (a bit like me and Ornette) I just don't get it.

I've started and failed to progress on dozens of his books over the years. And that includes wading uncomprehendingly through the first part of The Sound And The Fury.

I envy you guys. Maybe it'll all click some day. This is my version of Proust! This long-term aim is, temporarily I hope, hindered by the time contraints of having a toddler. I suspect such demanding reading, no matter how profound, brilliant or satisfying, deserves/requires some serious slabs of quality reading time.

What music do you suggest for reading Faulkner? Trout Mask Replica?

[Guest Mnytime]

Kenny:

For music I would go with Ornette.

Also, Cecil Taylor, Anthony Braxton, AEC, etc...

Faulkner's Nobel Acceptance Speech

I feel that this award was not made to me as a man, but to my work - a life's work in the agony and sweat of the human spirit, not for glory and least of all for profit, but to create out of the materials of the human spirit something which did not exist before. So this award is only mine in trust. It will not be difficult to find a dedication for the money part of it commensurate with the purpose and significance of its origin. But I would like to do the same with the acclaim too, by using this moment as a pinnacle from which I might be listened to by the young men and women already dedicated to the same anguish and travail, among whom is already that one who will some day stand here where I am standing.

Our tragedy today is a general and universal physical fear so long sustained by now that we can even bear it. There are no longer problems of the spirit. There is only the question: When will I be blown up? Because of this, the young man or woman writing today has forgotten the problems of the human heart in conflict with itself which alone can make good writing because only that is worth writing about, worth the agony and the sweat.

He must learn them again. He must teach himself that the basest of all things is to be afraid; and, teaching himself that, forget it forever, leaving no room in his workshop for anything but the old verities and truths of the heart, the old universal truths lacking which any story is ephemeral and doomed - love and honor and pity and pride and compassion and sacrifice. Until he does so, he labors under a curse. He writes not of love but of lust, of defeats in which nobody loses anything of value, of victories without hope and, worst of all, without pity or compassion. His griefs grieve on no universal bones, leaving no scars. He writes not of the heart but of the glands.

Until he relearns these things, he will write as though he stood among and watched the end of man. I decline to accept the end of man. It is easy enough to say that man is immortal simply because he will endure: that when the last dingdong of doom has clanged and faded from the last worthless rock hanging tideless in the last red and dying evening, that even then there will still be one more sound: that of his puny inexhaustible voice, still talking. I refuse to accept this. I believe that man will not merely endure: he will prevail. He is immortal, not because he alone among creatures has an inexhaustible voice, but because he has a soul, a spirit capable of compassion and sacrifice and endurance. The poet's, the writer's, duty is to write about these things. It is his privilege to help man endure by lifting his heart, by reminding him of the courage and honor and hope and pride and compassion and pity and sacrifice which have been the glory of his past. The poet's voice need not merely be the record of man, it can be one of the props, the pillars to help him endure and prevail.

Edited July 3, 2003 by Mnytime

[shrugs]

FWIW, it's Benjy.

[shrugs]

In fact Benji's section has no sense of time or place with all the jumping around it does. Another thing that makes the Benji section difficult is that there are two Maury's and two Quentin's. That Benji is called Maury up until 1900 than becomes Benji. The other Maury is his Uncle and mother's brother. The two Quentin's are Benji's brother who kills himself and Benji's neice who is the illegitimate daughter of Benji's sister Caddy.

Also, the second section happens I believe 18-20 years before the first section. Though Quentin's section takes place on the day he kills himself. There are flashbacks in this section as well. That Quentin kills himself over the loss of honor to the family caused by his sister losing her virginity.

It's in the Jason section that is told in "present time" that you find out that Quentin killed himself by drowning himself. That Benji was castrated. You also find that Jason is a sadist and how far the family has fallen since Quentin killed himself.

Now in terms of the last section I have friends who think it's supposed to be from God's point of view and not Dilsey since so much of it happens away from Dilsey. I have to admit that of my last reading I am leaning this way as well.

I should point out I have read this book about 12 times now.

Nice giving key points of the book away!! Remind me not to read a thread on books or movies where you post!!

[Guest Mnytime]

Yea, and show me any other thread I have done that. Since this is a thread that's purpose is to discuss Faulkner and his books I don't see how you can do that without bringing up key points. Also, since Conn had already started discussing the book what is the big deal?

This isn't some new film or book that people are rushing to see/read or anticipating its release. Most people avoid this book (and Faulkner in general) unless they have to read it for some High School or College course.

The whole purpose of this thread was for those that have read and are fans of Faulkner and his books. Of course key points are going to be discussed.

Edited July 3, 2003 by Mnytime

[connoisseur series500]

In fact Benji's section has no sense of time or place with all the jumping around it does.  Another thing that makes the Benji section difficult is that there are two Maury's and two Quentin's.  That Benji is called Maury up until 1900 than becomes Benji.  The other Maury is his Uncle and mother's brother.  The two Quentin's are Benji's brother who kills himself and Benji's neice who is the illegitimate daughter of Benji's sister Caddy.

Also, the second section happens I believe 18-20 years before the first section.  Though Quentin's section takes place on the day he kills himself.  There are flashbacks in this section as well.  That Quentin kills himself over the loss of honor to the family caused by his sister losing her virginity.

It's in the Jason section that is told in "present time" that you find out that Quentin killed himself by drowning himself.  That Benji was castrated.  You also find that Jason is a sadist and how far the family has fallen since Quentin killed himself.

Now in terms of the last section I have friends who think it's supposed to be from God's point of view and not Dilsey since so much of it happens away from Dilsey.  I have to admit that of my last reading I am leaning this way as well.

I should point out I have read this book about 12 times now.

Nice giving key points of the book away!! Remind me not to read a thread on books or movies where you post!!

It's OK, Shrugs, nothing has been ruined. Mny's commentary looks like it came directly from one of the websites he quoted Come on Mny!

Nothing has been ruined. There's so much in the book that it isn't funny. Mny's short summary can only help you as it is actually very difficult to follow the plot upon first reading. It actually helps to get a little help up front before picking up the book. There is so much richness in there that knowing a basic outline of the plot does not hurt.

No need to jump on Mny. This is a well known book and we haven't revealed much at all. I was just waiting for others to comment before really bringing up other detailed aspects of the book.

BTW, feel free to reveal details about Absalom, Absalom. I will happily use whatever help up front before actually reading the book.

[Guest Mnytime]

It's OK, Shrugs, nothing has been ruined.  Mny's commentary looks like it came directly from one of the websites he quoted    Come on Mny! 

What you are surprised I read the sites considering I posted them?

Honestly I don't think Absalom, Absalom is anywhere as difficult as The Sound and the Fury. Just try reading it first before you Psyche yourself out.

Edited July 3, 2003 by Mnytime

[connoisseur series500]

Aww c'mon, Mny! I want a Cliff Notes summary up front!

No, seriously, everyone. Faulkner's books are so involved that a short plot summary does no harm whatsoever.

[Guest Mnytime]

Well since you went to the sites I posted why not use that for your summary?

Basically its backdrop is surrounded by Racism and social standing in the South.

Edited July 3, 2003 by Mnytime

[jazzbo]

What an amazing author. And a character! I can just imagine his time in Hollywood. . . .

I like early stuff like "The Mosquitoes" as well.

[Jazzmoose]

This isn't the latest John Hillerman mystery or something, shrugs. Believe me, knowing the plot, or even being told how the book is constructed won't hurt your enjoyment of it one bit. In fact, I'm willing to wager that most people will take all the help they can get!

I remember trying to painstakingly put the first section in chronological order in American Literature and getting extremely frustrated. Then the next week the instructor gives us a "cheat sheet" that was already done. I could have killed the s.o.b.!!

[kulu se mama]

i was an english major, and "the sound and the fury" is my favorite book. the first time i read it, i had to stop 1/2 way through the benji section and start over. it gets easier each time you read it.

for my money this is a very complicated love story. if you read it from the point of view (like the beatles said) that all you need is love - it makes perfect sense.

[Guest Mnytime]

i was an english major, and "the sound and the fury" is my favorite book.  the first time i read it, i had to stop 1/2 way through the benji section and start over.  it gets easier each time you read it.

for my money this is a very complicated love story.  if you read it from the point of view (like the beatles said) that all you need is love - it makes perfect sense.

An interesting point of view. Never really thought about it as a Love Story. Who would be the lovers?

By the way, we don't want to upset Shrugs again. It's Benjy.

I was 13 the first time I tried to read this and after 5 pages I put it down and didn't go near it again until I was 18.

Edited July 3, 2003 by Mnytime

[shrugs]

IMO, one should have to figure out the dual names thing on their own. It will make it that much more rewarding. It's true that Faulkner constantly dealt with racism and social standing in the south, but luckily for those of us that are enthralled with his work, there is so much more especially with The Sound And The Fury.

His short stories alone can hold up to most full length novels of today.

One of the great things about Absalom, Absalom is how Faulkner holds the reader in suspense and feeds him little bits of information that forces one to continue.

"For all his concern with the South, Faulkner was actually seeking out the nature of man. Thus we must turn to him for that continuity of moral purpose which made for the greatness of our classics. " -- Ralph Ellison

Edited July 3, 2003 by shrugs

[shrugs]

I can just imagine his time in Hollywood. . . .

He hated it. We can only wish that his books would have sold enough to where he would have never had to pimp himself out for $250 a week after he already written some of the greatest works ever.

Faulkner on Hollywood:

"This is a place that lacks ideas. In Europe they asked me, what did I think? Out here they ask, Where did you get that hat?"

Edited July 3, 2003 by shrugs

[jazzbo]

Yeah I know he hated it. And drank his way through it. . . .

[shrugs]

and in the early days, screwed...........

But then again, he pretty much drank his way through life.

Edited July 3, 2003 by shrugs

[Guest Mnytime]

Yeah I know he hated it. And drank his way through it. . . .

The character in the film Barton Fink of the drunken Southern author was based on Faulkner's time in Hollywood.

I think Faulkner only got screen credit about 7 times out of all the scripts he worked on as a Screen Dr.

There was also no love lost between Faulkner and Hemingway because of the film To Have and Have Not. Hemingway didn't like what Faulkner did with his story if I recall.