What’s some of greatest discoveries in jazz?

[Free For All]

Although it sadly went back under the waves after it surfaced, Clifford and Max's "Live at the Beehive." IMO that's a signficantly different Clifford Brown than the Clifford who plays on any of his other recordings -- studio or live.

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It's still available, albeit on the vilified Lone Hill label ("da bastids" have it).

[kh1958]

I recall being rather surprised and delighted to find this in the record store, with no advance warning. I think that part of the concert was already available at the time as a bootleg on a U.K. lp (Charley or Affinity).

Going back to the 1970s, the belated issue of Mingus at Antibes must've been quite the revelation at the time.

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[GA Russell]

I think you mean 'Sixteen', not 'Skippy'.

Bertrand.

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Bertrand, I'm working from memory, so if you're sure that you're right I'll go along.

It seems to me that the Mosaic catalogues from the 80s often included references to tracks previously unknown. Maybe that was just a little hype. I think I have a catalogue from that era somewhere, but I wouldn't know where to find it quickly.

[Chuck Nessa]

Bertrand is correct. Relax and have a cool evening.

[Don Brown]

Still waiting for airchecks of the Earl Hines orchestra with Charlie Parker on tenor. Surely someone must have documented the Hines band during the recording ban.

Edited October 6, 2005 by Don Brown

[Chuck Nessa]

Still waiting for airchecks of the Earl Hines orchestra with Charlie Parker on tenor. Surely someone must have documented the Hines band during the recording ban.

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Uptown's Bob Sunenblick and I (to a lesser degree) have been chasing this for many years. Lots of info, lots of dead ends and a bunch of stuff unconfirmed by circumstance. We are "on the case"!

[John Tapscott]

Concert 1 & Concert 3 from the Los Angeles Neophonic Orchestra's inaugural season (1965) conducted by Stan Kenton, and released earlier this year on 2- 2 CD sets on Tantara Records.

There were something like 12 concerts from 1965-1968. All were apparently recorded, but only these have survived, for some reason. Forget your preconceptions of Kenton. This is brilliantly played and recorded (by the house sound system at Chandler Hall) orchestral jazz. (No strings, but a slightly augmented standard big band instrumentation).

Excellent productions, as well.

http://www.tantaraproductions.com/

[EKE BBB]

Still waiting for airchecks of the Earl Hines orchestra with Charlie Parker on tenor. Surely someone must have documented the Hines band during the recording ban.

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Uptown's Bob Sunenblick and I (to a lesser degree) have been chasing this for many years. Lots of info, lots of dead ends and a bunch of stuff unconfirmed by circumstance. We are "on the case"!

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That would be another "Release of the Year" (release of the decade?) on your counter, Chuck!

[Chuck Nessa]

Now I know I will die from brass overload.

Kinda' like kids and lead poisoning.

Edit to say my above response was caused by Mr Tapscott's post.

Edited October 6, 2005 by Chuck Nessa

[Jim R]

I don't know if you'd call it a "discovery" since the recordings were known about, but I seem to recall a fair amount of exictement about the Benedetti recordings of Charlie Parker.

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I think this example definitely qualifies for this thread, because even if recordings are "known to exist", they're kind of difficult to hear until they're actually found!

[Kalo]

Still waiting for airchecks of the Earl Hines orchestra with Charlie Parker on tenor. Surely someone must have documented the Hines band during the recording ban.

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Uptown's Bob Sunenblick and I (to a lesser degree) have been chasing this for many years. Lots of info, lots of dead ends and a bunch of stuff unconfirmed by circumstance. We are "on the case"!

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That would be another "Release of the Year" (release of the decade?) on your counter, Chuck!

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I agree with that. Would love to hear this.

I don't know if you'd call it a "discovery" since the recordings were known about, but I seem to recall a fair amount of exictement about the Benedetti recordings of Charlie Parker.

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I think this example definitely qualifies for this thread, because even if recordings are "known to exist", they're kind of difficult to hear until they're actually found!

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And if they're not known to exist, or at least rumored to exist, how would you know to look for them at all?

[John Tapscott]

Now I know I will die from brass overload. 

Kinda' like kids and lead poisoning.

Edit to say my above response was caused by Mr Tapscott's post. 

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Well, it's quite a discovery for those who like this kind of thing. No big deal for those who don't. But I think many people would be surprised at how good this music is, and also at the variety. If you don't like lots of brass ignore it, because there IS lots of brass, but hey, there's one long Clare Fischer chart which has NO TRUMPETS at all.

[Kalo]

Now I know I will die from brass overload. 

Kinda' like kids and lead poisoning.

Edit to say my above response was caused by Mr Tapscott's post. 

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Well, it's quite a discovery for those who like this kind of thing. No big deal for those who don't. But I think many people would be surprised at how good this music is, and also at the variety. If you don't like lots of brass ignore it, because there IS lots of brass, but hey, there's one long Clare Fischer chart which has NO TRUMPETS at all.

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Kenton without trumpets? Is that allowed?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

The L.A. Neophonic AIN'T the Stan Kenton band.

Mike

[Chuck Nessa]

The L.A. Neophonic AIN'T the Stan Kenton band.

Mike

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Good and Bad things contained in that statement. -_-

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I'll go along with that too - but probably not the way you intended.

Mike

[JSngry]

The Neophonic album that Capitol released needs to be reissued. Not something I'm emotionally drawn to (although the theme to Hugo Montenegro's (?) "Fanfare" still sticks in my head for no apparent reason 35 years after hearing it...), but much of the music is, as they say, "interesting". Those concert recordings sound interesting as well.

Now, if somebody finds Brid & Diz w/Hines, and I get to hear it, I'll know that my days here are numbered, and can die a happy man. Otherwise, I'm just gonna have to live waaaay past any useful point, just in case.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

That Capitol Neophonic record was reissued in 1998 with bonus track of that Clare Fischer piece.

Mike

[Chuck Nessa]

I'll go along with that too - but probably not the way you intended.

Mike

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That response deserves an explaination, if for no other reason than to find out wtf you think I intended.

[John Tapscott]

That Capitol Neophonic record was reissued in 1998 with bonus track of that Clare Fischer piece.

Mike

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Capitol deleted it about 2 years later. Very hard to find now.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Chuck - I know that in the world of Kenton, you're partial to the c. 1953 stuff. I like that stuff too. But I kind of think you don't go for his more ambitious overblown things. And I think you place a lot of value on the soloists.

The good thing about the Neophonic not being the Kenton band to me is that he was more hands-off (and I swear to God I did not mean that in the sense of a Kenton anecdote you once told, but it's damn funny now that I do think of that), with the intent to be a resident orchestra for new music.

I am a big fan of modern wind band music and I see the Neophonic as something along those lines - but instead of having classical composers with some interest (but almost never any real experience) in jazz doing the writing, the Neophonic had jazz composers with some interest in classical music.

The bad thing about the Neophonic not being the Kenton band is that it didn't have the longevity and popular appeal to keep it going since it wasn't touring around on a bus playing The Peanut Vendor for the billionth time.

But the Neophonic, to me, is not about the soloists (which to you isn't good) and it is amazingly ambitious (which to you isn't good). The Neophonic doesn't have arrangements of Wagner and Chicago either (which to you is good - and to me is good, too, now that I think about it).

Am I close?

Mike

[Chuck Nessa]

Am I close?

Mike

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Not very but I'm going to bed now. I hope I remember this thread in the morning so I can return.

[BruceH]

How good is the Fargo concert?

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Very, very good. One of the two or three best Ellington live recordings.

[BruceH]

Not as big as the Monk/Trane or BirdnDiz, but what about the discovery of Chico Hamilton's Original Ellington Suite w/Eric Dolphy?

        Guy

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That's what came to mind for me. I agree that it's not as big a discovery, but the story of how this was discovered is as improbably amazing as the story behind the Bird and Diz at Town Hall discovery.

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Indeed.

The fact that you can just go out and buy an album that came so close to total oblivion is pretty damn wonderful.

[AllenLowe]

I'm a little late to this, so I apologize if I'm repeating info - but what of that 1953 Kenton Band? I think that was the tour with Bird and Dave Schildkraut (and there's a funny story about someone complaining that Bird was practicing too late at night, and it was really Dave, who was quite proud to be mistaken this way) - are there recordings?