Barry Bonds passing Babe Ruth HR record

[Tjazz]

Barry Bonds is set to play the Dodgers this weekend. I remember Hank Aron hitting his record breaking HR against the Dodgers.

So are the Dodgers going to walk Bonds or pitch to him?

[Neal Pomea]

Barry Bonds is set to play the Dodgers this weekend. I remember Hank Aron hitting his record breaking HR against the Dodgers.

So are the Dodgers going to walk Bonds or pitch to him?

Try to hit him in the knee?

Steal his cream?

Blur his clear?

[Ed S]

The whole steroid thing has totally tainted Bonds' numbers and pretty much rendered what should be a historic event meaningless - at least in my opinion.

[Jazzmoose]

As far as the question in the title goes: yes. (This was the number one sports fan moment in my life. Others remember where they were when Kennedy was shot; I remember Aaron's home run...)

Edited May 13, 2006 by Jazzmoose

[Quincy]

As far as the question in the title goes: yes. (This was the number one sports fan moment in my life. Others remember where they were when Kennedy was shot; I remember Aaron's home run...)

#44 on the mound (Al Downing), #44 at the plate (Aaron), and the ump's # was...ta duh, 44.

Can't really work out as nicely with Bonds vs. the Dodgers as backup catcher Sandy Alomar's # is 25 (same as Bonds). No idea what the umpire crews #s are. There is a reliever with the #44 though, to bring it all back home as it were.

So Moose, you must not have been that poor (disturbed) guy who shot his wife because she made him take out the trash during the game and he missed the HR. Pretty sure that isn't an urban legend, or at least not the "net" kind.

[chris olivarez]

Bonds owns Brad Penny but couldn't take him deep last night. Perhaps he'll fare better against Aaron Sele today but since I'm a Dodgers fan it'll be no sweat off my grin if he doesn't. I thought Bonds had his best numbers against LA but it turns out that he's fared the best against the Padres.

[BruceH]

The whole steroid thing has totally tainted Bonds' numbers and pretty much rendered what should be a historic event meaningless - at least in my opinion.

I have to agree. Not nearly as impressive as Hank Aron's passing Ruth's record.

What would really impress me is if someone could surpass Ruth's HR record not only without steroids, but while smoking, boozing, and eating to excess. That would truly be something.

[Ed S]

What would really impress me is if someone could surpass Ruth's HR record not only without steroids, but while smoking, boozing, and eating to excess. That would truly be something.

[Jazzmoose]

So Moose, you must not have been that poor (disturbed) guy who shot his wife because she made him take out the trash during the game and he missed the HR. Pretty sure that isn't an urban legend, or at least not the "net" kind.

No, but strangely enough, I was taking care of the trash at my after school job at a convenience store that night. This was pre "super station" (at least for our neck of the woods), so I was listening to the radio. When I see footage of the home run, it does nothing for me. But about ten or twelve years ago, a freind gave me one of those "talking baseball card" players, which included the Hank Aaron card. It had the radio play-by-play on it, and every time I listen to that, I'm a kid again, except for the tears running down my face. Darn nostalgia!!

[connoisseur series500]

The whole steroid thing has totally tainted Bonds' numbers and pretty much rendered what should be a historic event meaningless - at least in my opinion.

I have to agree. Not nearly as impressive as Hank Aron's passing Ruth's record.

What would really impress me is if someone could surpass Ruth's HR record not only without steroids, but while smoking, boozing, and eating to excess. That would truly be something.

Why? Should this be the model for all baseball players to follow?

Bruce, I hope Barry swats past the record. The media is completely anti-Barry. He may have used steroids but so did Sosa, Palmero, and McGuire, amongst others. The guy is not the most personable fellow in the world, but he's had a great career and has worked hard. Go Barry!

[sheldonm]

The whole steroid thing has totally tainted Bonds' numbers and pretty much rendered what should be a historic event meaningless - at least in my opinion.

I have to agree. Not nearly as impressive as Hank Aron's passing Ruth's record.

What would really impress me is if someone could surpass Ruth's HR record not only without steroids, but while smoking, boozing, and eating to excess. That would truly be something.

Why? Should this be the model for all baseball players to follow?

Bruce, I hope Barry swats past the record. The media is completely anti-Barry. He may have used steroids but so did Sosa, Palmero, and McGuire, amongst others. The guy is not the most personable fellow in the world, but he's had a great career and has worked hard. Go Barry!

[RonF]

The whole steroid thing has totally tainted Bonds' numbers and pretty much rendered what should be a historic event meaningless - at least in my opinion.

Yep.

[connoisseur series500]

The whole steroid thing has totally tainted Bonds' numbers and pretty much rendered what should be a historic event meaningless - at least in my opinion.

I have to agree. Not nearly as impressive as Hank Aron's passing Ruth's record.

What would really impress me is if someone could surpass Ruth's HR record not only without steroids, but while smoking, boozing, and eating to excess. That would truly be something.

Why? Should this be the model for all baseball players to follow?

Bruce, I hope Barry swats past the record. The media is completely anti-Barry. He may have used steroids but so did Sosa, Palmero, and McGuire, amongst others. The guy is not the most personable fellow in the world, but he's had a great career and has worked hard. Go Barry!

Mark,

Either it must be proven conclusively, or you leave the guy alone. I'm cheering for Barry!

[Guy Berger]

I'm not really bothered by his steroid use. So I guess I'm with conn500 on this one.

Guy

[connoisseur series500]

I'm not really bothered by his steroid use. So I guess I'm with conn500 on this one.

Guy

If I took steroids, I'd still whiff at fastballs.

:bwallace2:

[Big Wheel]

I'm not really bothered by his steroid use. So I guess I'm with conn500 on this one.

Guy

He'll always have a big fat asterisk next to his name as far as I'm concerned. No, not an asterisk - that's unfair to the likes of Roger Maris. Better to give him one of these: † ...the better to nail himself to.

Edited May 15, 2006 by Big Wheel

[BERIGAN]

I'm not really bothered by his steroid use. So I guess I'm with conn500 on this one.

Guy

He'll always have a big fat asterisk next to his name as far as I'm concerned. No, not an asterisk - that's unfair to the likes of Roger Maris. Better to give him one of these: † ...the better to nail himself to.

There never was an asterisk next to Maris' name, but I agree with the sentiment. And used to really stick up for Bonds....better never hear Albert Pujols has used them....

Edited May 15, 2006 by BERIGAN

[BERIGAN]

I am heartened to see Bonds have so much trouble catching, and passing Ruth though! It is looking like Aaron's 755 is going to stay the record. Double

[Dan Gould]

The whole steroid thing has totally tainted Bonds' numbers and pretty much rendered what should be a historic event meaningless - at least in my opinion.

I have to agree. Not nearly as impressive as Hank Aron's passing Ruth's record.

What would really impress me is if someone could surpass Ruth's HR record not only without steroids, but while smoking, boozing, and eating to excess. That would truly be something.

Why? Should this be the model for all baseball players to follow?

Bruce, I hope Barry swats past the record. The media is completely anti-Barry. He may have used steroids but so did Sosa, Palmero, and McGuire, amongst others. The guy is not the most personable fellow in the world, but he's had a great career and has worked hard. Go Barry!

Mark,

Either it must be proven conclusively, or you leave the guy alone. I'm cheering for Barry!

Two points:

We're not talking about catching and breaking marks held by Sos, Palmiero or McGuire. We're talking about the Babe, Who Did It On Hot Dogs & Beer; and Aaron, Who Did It With Class. How did Barry Do It?

Secondly, by the end of the next merry go round spin of the legal system, something very close to conclusive proof will be presented. (I'm surprised that you don't consider Book of Shadows conclusive enough).

[Guy Berger]

I'm not really bothered by his steroid use. So I guess I'm with conn500 on this one.

Guy

He'll always have a big fat asterisk next to his name as far as I'm concerned. No, not an asterisk - that's unfair to the likes of Roger Maris. Better to give him one of these: † ...the better to nail himself to.

<shrug>

In 100 years they'll chuckle at our quaint disdain for steroid usage among athletes.

Guy

[Dan Gould]

I'm not really bothered by his steroid use. So I guess I'm with conn500 on this one.

Guy

He'll always have a big fat asterisk next to his name as far as I'm concerned. No, not an asterisk - that's unfair to the likes of Roger Maris. Better to give him one of these: † ...the better to nail himself to.

<shrug>

In 100 years they'll chuckle at our quaint disdain for steroid usage among athletes.

Guy

I'd love to hear how you get from near-universal testing in all professional sports today to "chuckling at our quaint disdain for steroid usage" in a hundred years. There may always be an ongoing battle between chemists and testing methods, but there is no way in hell people will end up applauding chemical enhancements.

Or let me guess - you thought Canseco's book, with its ode to the wonders of steroids and their future embrace was spot on?

Or maybe if Barry wasn't such an ornery son of a bitch we'd embrace him now ...

[J Larsen]

We're not talking about catching and breaking marks held by Sos, Palmiero or McGuire. We're talking about the Babe, Who Did It On Hot Dogs & Beer; and Aaron, Who Did It With Class. How did Barry Do It?

The Babe also did it playing in a diluted (whites only) talent field. Don't you think he may have hit a couple less if some of his abs had been against the likes of Satchel Paige, et al? I think all sports records are pretty much meaningless. There are no two comparable eras. If it's not racist restrictions on who can play, the ready availability of steriods, the composition of the ball, the DH era, or the changing mound height, it's the changing technology. Two ball players from different generations have never played on equal footing, and attmepts to compare their relative abilities and accomplishments are futile, in my opinion.

Do I think steriods should be out of sports? Yes, because it's not really a personal decision. If one person is using them, it puts a lot of pressure on everyone else to use them to keep up. And if practically everybody is using them, you'd better, too. I can't really blame individual players, even the most high-profile users (Bonds, Giambi [he sure was forgiven quickly], Mcguire, Sosa, etc) for the problem. I think they probably all really believed that they were just doing what they had to do. It's really MLB's fault for turning a blind eye for so long. And why not? That HR surge is what got people back into the ballparks after the strike, after all.

Edited to add that Bonds is a prick and his own worst enemy. Don't want to be mistaken for an apologist.

Edited May 16, 2006 by J Larsen

[Dan Gould]

We're not talking about catching and breaking marks held by Sos, Palmiero or McGuire. We're talking about the Babe, Who Did It On Hot Dogs & Beer; and Aaron, Who Did It With Class. How did Barry Do It?

The Babe also did it playing in a diluted (whites only) talent field. Don't you think he may have hit a couple less if some of his abs had been against the likes of Satchel Paige, et al? I think all sports records are pretty much meaningless. There are no two comparable eras. If it's not racist restrictions on who can play, the ready availability of steriods, the composition of the ball, the DH era, or the changing mound height, it's the changing technology. Two ball players from different generations have never played on equal footing, and attmepts to compare their relative abilities and accomplishments are futile, in my opinion.

I agree. You forgot to add different rules in place at different times, like the fact that a ball bouncing into the stands in fair territory was a home run during a portion of Ruth's career; yet also a ball that hooked around the fair pole and landed in foul territory wasn't a home run.

The Globe's Bob Ryan had a terrific column on just these sorts of things:

In baseball, times change, and so do the standards

By Bob Ryan, Globe Columnist | April 23, 2006

Pay attention: This may be the first time anyone ever has used the names Adam Stern and Tris Speaker in the same sentence.

Tris Speaker could not have made the great game-ending catch Adam Stern came up with Tuesday night, and the reason has nothing to do with an athletic gap between the 21st century Canadian and the early 20th century Texan Hall of Famer. I am simply saying that if the same ball were hit, and each man arrived at the same patch of grass where the baseball was descending, that Speaker could not have caught and held onto the ball, not with the kind of puny little glove he and his contemporaries wore.

If you were magically time-capsuled back to 1906, 1908, or 1912, you would recognize baseball as baseball a lot more than you'd recognize basketball as basketball or football as football. The essentials remain: 90 feet, three strikes, four balls, three outs, etc. It is the most timeless of our games.

But don't be fooled. The game has changed dramatically.

Please keep this in mind as Barry Bonds -- or should I say ''if" Barry Bonds -- pursues first Babe Ruth and then Hank Aaron. Many people are apoplectic on the subject of Bonds passing these revered diamond figures on the all-time home run list. If you listen closely to Commissioner Bud, sooner or later you will hear the phrase ''sanctity of the record book," or a derivative.

Really?

I think we need a timeout.

I love baseball more than any other sport or human entertainment activity, and part of the fun for the serious fan is discussion and analysis of the famous numbers. If 4,256, 4,191, 2,632, 2,130, 511, 755, 714, and 56 mean nothing to you, then I submit you are not a serious fan.

But revering the numbers helps perpetuate the myth that baseball is timeless. It is not. The framework of the game is, but the inner workings are not. We've got to be grown-up about this. As much as we love to compare the numbers in the hope of pretending that baseball is baseball is baseball, it is not.

The games being played all over the country today will look very much like the games that were played 30, 50, or 100 years ago, but they will not be played with the same equipment, or under the same conditions, or even with the same mind-set, and all this affects any so-called ''records" that will be set, which brings us back to Adam Stern and Tris Speaker.

Tris Speaker was a great player. No, I mean a great, great player, so great that he entered the Hall of Fame in 1937, part of the second class ever. He broke in with the Red Sox in 1907 and finished up with the Philadelphia A's in 1928. He had a career total of 3,514 hits (I grew up reading it was 3,515, but somewhere along the way a sleuth discovered a bogus hit, I guess), and he was generally acclaimed as the greatest defensive center fielder the game had seen until Joe DiMaggio materialized in 1936. Among other distinctions, he is said to have pulled off some absurd number of unassisted double plays, a feat that reflects both his willingness to play shallow and the dead ball featured until 1920.

But we know that Speaker, and all his contemporaries, starting with the great Cobb himself, got countless hits that would have been gobbled up by today's fielders, not solely because the best athletes who ever have played the game are on view today, but also because they have the benefit of magnificent hit-robbing gloves. How many grounders got through holes that would be 6-3s, 5-3s, 4-3s, and 3-unassisteds today? How many of Speaker's fly balls into the gap would have been caught by today's outfielders? We'll never know.

Ah, but what about the reverse? Speaker is the all-time doubles leader with 792. Had he the benefit of a lively ball during his prime, would more Speaker shots have gotten into the alleys, giving him even more two-bagger opportunities? Or is it possible he was the beneficiary of balls that sort of died in the grass, giving the speedy Speaker (he also had 432 stolen bases) a chance to stretch that single into a double? Again. Who knows?

What about that dead ball? How many more home runs would Ruth have hit in 1916, 1917, 1918, and 1919 were he hitting the same ball he was swinging at in 1920, when he increased his own record from 29 to 54 in the first year of the so-called lively ball? And we won't even get into the pitching business. Were the Babe a full-time outfielder from Day 1, would he have hit 20 more homers? 50? More? No one knows. What we do know is that when you add these mythical homers to the 714 he did hit, Aaron would be No. 2.

Oops, but wait a minute. There were many great pitchers out there the Babe never had to face, people of color being barred from the big leagues. I have a feeling Satchel Paige would have whiffed the Bambino every now and then. So multiply that one a few times over.

Where were we? Did I mention the 296 feet and very low fence in Yankee Stadium, a.k.a. The House That Ruth Built? Or did I mention that Ruth's home field from 1920-22 was the Polo Grounds, which was 257 feet to right (before sloping off dramatically)? And did you know that in the '20s, a ball that bounced into the stands was ruled a home run, not a ground rule double? Does anyone know how that affected Ruth's total? The answer is no.

Today, we know where every pitch is thrown and every ball is hit. It's all stored in the computer. It's a different world.

Cy Young won 511 games. But he started out in 1890, when the distance to the mound was 50 feet. The record book does not show how many games he won at 50 feet and how many he won at 60 feet 6 inches. It just shows that between 1890 and 1911 he won 511 games and lost 316 (again, I was raised to believe he had lost 315; where did that other L come from?) in an era when the concept of relief was totally different. But who doesn't know that?

Even in our time, we have two very different games being played. Winning 20 games in the National League is harder than winning 20 games in the American League because the DH allows American League pitchers to remain in the game longer. Then again, pitching in general is much harder in the American League because there is a DH, rather than a pitcher, occupying one of those nine slots in the batting order. So who has had the more impressive career from a strict W standpoint, Roger Clemens, who has spent most of his career in the AL, or career NLer Greg Maddux?

You tell me.

There have been offensive eras and defensive eras. The '60s and '70s were rough on offense. The '30s and '90s were very kind to offense. Is Andruw Jones a better slugger than Mike Schmidt? I don't think anyone would say that. But Andruw hit 51 homers last year, and Schmidt never hit 50. Neither did Harmon Killebrew or Frank Howard. How would you like to see vintage Frank Howard in Camden Yards? He would have check-swinged a dozen, minimum.

I could give a thousand examples. Batting records, pitching records, and, perhaps most of all, fielding records must be viewed in the proper context.

So let Barry do whatever it is he's going to do. Babe Ruth hit 714 home runs in his times, under his conditions, both personal and general. The same goes for Hank Aaron and his 755. The circumstances have not been created equal. Barry Bonds will hold the record for home runs in his time, period.

Meanwhile, nothing provides better sports conversation than baseball. Wouldn't you love to see one of those Tris Speaker unassisted double plays pop up on ''SportsCenter" tonight?

[Christiern]

With Bond' steroid use, I don't know why y'all are even discussing this. The man cheated and I agree that this renders any record he might beat invalid.

[RDK]

Do I think steriods should be out of sports? Yes, because it's not really a personal decision. If one person is using them, it puts a lot of pressure on everyone else to use them to keep up. And if practically everybody is using them, you'd better, too.

I think it would be terrific fun if all athletes could take whatever steroids or performance-enhancing products they could find. Don't just stop at a juiced ball or corked bat. It'd be hilarious to see bulked-up players hitting balls 500 feet, then dropping dead rounding the bases. Bionic parts should be acceptable too. Could you imagine someone throwing a 150 mph curveball.