connoisseur series500 Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 Let's hear your thoughts about which sessions are overrated by AMG. We often beef about ones which get little respect. Aren't they some which get greater respect than they should? Here's one to start: Lou Donaldson, "Lush Life." AMG gives it 5 stars. No way, Jose!!! It's a 3-star at best, in my opinion. I know there are others, but that's the one that springs to mind right now. What do you guys think? Quote
Peter Johnson Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 Conn, why do you only rate this 3 stars? I ask because I've been thinking about picking up a copy of it lately. Quote
Dan Gould Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 I *love* Lush Life, a beautiful and unique entry in LDs discography. Great arrangements and LD's beautiful tone caressing classic melodies. Maybe not 5 stars, but 4 or 4.5, easily! Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted August 11, 2003 Author Report Posted August 11, 2003 Conn, why do you only rate this 3 stars? I ask because I've been thinking about picking up a copy of it lately. It just didn't "speak" to me, PJ, but maybe I got to give it another spin after reading Dan's post. Will be back later on that.... Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted August 11, 2003 Author Report Posted August 11, 2003 I'm listening to "Lush Life" again as I write and I cannot revise my initial estimate. It's a 3-star in my book and no more. It is well recorded and has its moments but it's a big yawner. Mccoy Tyner tries to add a bit of punch to "It might as Well Be Spring," but basically everybody plays like they're asleep. Great linup and no one seems to be clicking. Lou's alto sounds treacly sweet. My impression is that some of these songs would have been great as add ons to other cds but to record and play them all on one cd is positively diabetic!! My blood sugar level has risen too high! I must point out that I've never been thrilled with altos playing ballads after Charlie Parker with Strings. Everything else is a big letdown after that. I can't take Frank Morgan's sickly sweet tones on ballads either. Jackie Mac can do it because he's got that tone with an edge. Sonny Stitt can do it as well cause he's aggressive even on ballads. Again, if mixed with uptempo stuff, many of these ballads would be fine, but to make a cd with the same tone song after song...too much sugar! Everyone on this cd plays solos like they're walking on eggshells. Such great musicians too! I guess it's just taste. Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 I listened to Lush Life a few times myself (I think on loan from a friend a few years back), and I had the same reaction as you do, Conn500. It was a nice enough disc, but certainly no 5-star outing. I'd be curious to hear it again, and see if my reaction was the same. At the time, I would have given it 3.5 stars, at most. Quote
J Larsen Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 Christian McBride's "A Family Affair" gets four stars from AMG. It gets two from me, and one of those is a courtesy star. What they hail as a fusion of "70s funk and soul" with "50s and 60s hard bop" strikes me as closer to smooth jazz. More egregiously, Lovano's "Celebrating Sinatra" gets 4.5 stars from AMG. NO WAY!!! The only time I pull that disc out is when I need a coaster! I give it a half a star, as it even makes a pretty lousy coaster! Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted August 11, 2003 Author Report Posted August 11, 2003 More egregiously, Lovano's "Celebrating Sinatra" gets 4.5 stars from AMG. NO WAY!!! The only time I pull that disc out is when I need a coaster! Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted August 11, 2003 Author Report Posted August 11, 2003 Here are another couple of examples of cds rated 5 stars which don't deserve it in my opinion: John Hicks, "Single Petal of a Rose" (yechhhh!) Charles Fambrough, "Blues at Bradleys" I love Charles Fambrough but "Blues" is not a 5 star cd and nowhere near the quality of "Proper Angle" or "The Charmer." Maybe AMG has since revised these opinions. I am going by AMG guide 3rd edition. Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 Maybe AMG has since revised these opinions. I am going by AMG guide 3rd edition. The on-line version of AMG gives "Lush Life" only 4.5 stars, not 5 -- but that's still way overrated in my book. Quote
Templejazz Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 I hate these overrated discussions. It's all a matter of personal taste. For the record, I have 'Lush Life' and it falls sweetly upon these ears. Quote
J Larsen Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 I hate these overrated discussions. It's all a matter of personal taste. Then read another thread, dude. Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted August 11, 2003 Author Report Posted August 11, 2003 After checking online, it looks like the Hicks and Fambrough sessions have been lowered to 4.5 stars as well. Still overrated by a bunch. Maybe 4.5 stars is AMG's version of 5 stars now. Quote
Templejazz Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003  I hate these overrated discussions. It's all a matter of personal taste. Then read another thread, dude. I'll read where I want and post opinions of my choice where I want. I didn't ask for your recommendations. Quote
Templejazz Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 But I guess the point to a thread like this is to ruffle the feathers a bit. AMG give Patton's 'Blue John' 4.5 stars......I'd give it maybe 2.5 I haven't heard it in a while though so I could be wrong. Quote
J Larsen Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 Well, we are in the recommendations forum... I think we're having a useful discussion in this thread. I don't see why you would want to come post in an "overrated" thread just to piss on the parade and say that it's a bad topic for conversation. Quote
Templejazz Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 (edited) I wouldn't have been the first on these boards. Edited August 11, 2003 by Templejazz Quote
J Larsen Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 I wouldn't have been the first on these boards. Fair enough! BTW, 2.5 for Blue John seems a tad bit stingy to me. Quote
Soul Stream Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 But I guess the point to a thread like this is to ruffle the feathers a bit. AMG give Patton's 'Blue John' 4.5 stars......I'd give it maybe 2.5 I haven't heard it in a while though so I could be wrong. Blasphemy! ALL John Patton sessions are FIVE STARS!!! Quote
Templejazz Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 I wouldn't have been the first on these boards.   Fair enough! BTW, 2.5 for Blue John seems a tad bit stingy to me. Yah know, I bought it when it was a dusty leftover at Tower and couldn't get into it at all and sold it about 3 days after. 2.5-3 stars is what I remember from listening though like I said, I'd probably have to hear it again. Quote
Peter Johnson Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 jlarsen said: 2.5 for Blue John seems a tad bit stingy to me. I respectfully disagree, and have to say I'm with tjazz on this one. I finally got a copy of Blue John after looking and looking. It arrived in the mail, and I ripped open the package and put the CD on with bated breath and shaking fingers. "New John Patton!" I thought to myself. "That I've never heard before!!!" Turned on the player. Put in the disc. Hit play. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...*snort* Whaaa? Boring! Ahhh, must be an outlier. Skip to the next track! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...uhhhh.... Well, suffice it to say that it's not on my top ten list. Or fifty. Or hundred! I guess I can say that I "appreciate" the record, but for whatever reason, it just doesn't do anything for me. And I love Patton's other records! Go figure. Quote
Templejazz Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 I wouldn't say it didn't do anything for me, however I was expecting something COMPLETELY different, especially after seeing Tommy Turrentine's name on the lineup. Quote
J Larsen Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 Hey, I said a "tad bit" stingy! It's my least favorite of the four or five Patton cds I have, but I think that's mostly due to the fact that I don't care for George Braith's playing or compositions. Consequently, I find the first two tracks in particular to be pretty dumpy. But the Patton and Grant Green originals on the album are solid, IMO. I interpret 2.5 stars as being on the bad side of average. With that in mind, I'd give Blue John at least 3.5. I'd need to listen to the last four tracks again to see if I'd give it more. Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 Truthfully, I think the AMG has much of the Patton catalog upside down, ratings-wise (that's just my opinion), at least when talking about his BN output. 'Boogaloo' and 'Understanding' are (I think) among his very best work (I'd give 'em 4-stars each, at least), where 'Blue John' is just a 3-star record to me. The AMG has them just about flip-flopped. AMG's ratings for John Patton's BN output... 1963 Along Came John (4-stars) 1963 Blue John (4.5 stars) 1964 The Way I Feel (3-stars) 1965 Oh Baby! (4-stars) 1965 Let 'em Roll (5-stars) 1966 Got a Good Thing Goin' (4.5 stars) 1968 That Certain Feeling (3-stars) 1968 Boogaloo (2.5-stars) 1968 Understanding (2-stars) 1969 Accent on the Blues (3-stars) 1969 Memphis to New York Spirit (3-stars) Quote
Jazzmoose Posted August 11, 2003 Report Posted August 11, 2003 More egregiously, Lovano's "Celebrating Sinatra" gets 4.5 stars from AMG. NO WAY!!! The only time I pull that disc out is when I need a coaster! I give it a half a star, as it even makes a pretty lousy coaster! I have to agree with you; I'd give it half a star only because of the existance of AOL discs everywhere, which suck up all the "no star" ratings... Quote
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