Shrdlu Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 ... anyway, the AMG's comments are just random noise ... (But I find the website very useful.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 I don't know, I'm sure this will raise some eyebrows, but I find AMG to be accurate much more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted August 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 "Blue John" is definitely one of the weaker Big John sessions, in my opinion. I would probably rate it 3.5 stars. J. Larsen and I agree there. Rooster's 3 stars is a tad light, I think, but I'm being PRECISE!! Thanks for the contribution Tjazz even if this might not be your favorite type of topic. BTW, I often pick on AMG as far as their rating system is concerned, but they are still an invaluable and favorite reference source for me. No one is perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 Oh yeah, I forgot to add that I did get to listen to Blue John again today. It's a solid 3.5. The first two tracks are as bad as I remembered, Braith bugs me as much as I remembered, but, IMO, the Patton and Green originals warrant a 3.5 for the album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Johnson Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 Fine. Be that way! I'll listen to Blue John to reevaluate and perhaps I will be made to eat crow tomorrow! But hopefully no -_- will be occurring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted August 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 Truthfully, I think the AMG has much of the Patton catalog upside down, ratings-wise (that's just my opinion), at least when talking about his BN output. 'Boogaloo' and 'Understanding' are (I think) among his very best work (I'd give 'em 4-stars each, at least), where 'Blue John' is just a 3-star record to me. The AMG has them just about flip-flopped. AMG's ratings for John Patton's BN output... 1963 Along Came John (4-stars) 1963 Blue John (4.5 stars) 1964 The Way I Feel (3-stars) 1965 Oh Baby! (4-stars) 1965 Let 'em Roll (5-stars) 1966 Got a Good Thing Goin' (4.5 stars) 1968 That Certain Feeling (3-stars) 1968 Boogaloo (2.5-stars) 1968 Understanding (2-stars) 1969 Accent on the Blues (3-stars) 1969 Memphis to New York Spirit (3-stars) Here are my thoughts on the Patton discography: 1963 Along Came John (4 stars) 1963 Blue John (4.5 stars) I'd rate it at 3.5 1964 The Way I feel (3 stars) I'd give it 4 1965 Oh Baby! (4 stars) 1965 Let em Roll! (5 stars) I'd give it 4 1966 Got a Good think Goin (4.5 stars) 5 all the way baby!! 1968 That Certain Feeling (3 stars) another 5!! 1968 Boogaloo (2.5 stars) 4 stars 1968 Understanding (2 stars) 3 stars 1969 Accent on the Blues (3 stars) I'd give it 4 1969 Memphis to New York Spirit (3 stars) 4.5 stars. Great session. AMG is screwed up when it comes to Big John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted August 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 Fine. Be that way! I'll listen to Blue John to reevaluate and perhaps I will be made to eat crow tomorrow! But hopefully no -_- will be occurring! Pete, Blue John is certainly better than that Donaldson, "Lush Life" i'm sending to you. I'm just hoping you've got different tastes and will really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted August 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 (edited) AMG's ratings for John Patton's BN output... 1963Â Along Came John (4-stars) 1963Â Blue John (4.5 stars)Â 1964Â The Way I Feel (3-stars) 1965Â Oh Baby! (4-stars) 1965Â Let 'em Roll (5-stars) 1966Â Got a Good Thing Goin' (4.5 stars) 1968Â That Certain Feeling (3-stars) 1968Â Boogaloo (2.5-stars)Â 1968Â Understanding (2-stars)Â 1969Â Accent on the Blues (3-stars) 1969Â Memphis to New York Spirit (3-stars) While you're at this, would love to see your comments on the Andrew Hill discography as compared to AMG, Rooster. B) Edited August 12, 2003 by connoisseur series500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Johnson Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 If I can't stand Lush Life and have to sell it, this thread must be deleted at once (or the street price of Lush Life will continue to plummet!) OKAY, back to our regularly scheduled thread. How about this: Herbie Hancock, "The Prisoner", three stars? What the feck? This is definitely a 4-star session. And check it: The tone is . . . of reflection and contemplation, and on that level, The Prisoner succeeds handsomely, even if the music meanders a little too often to be judged a complete success. Riiiiiiiight. Meanders? Come on. IMHO Prisoner is intricately and meticulously arranged, and I don't think it meanders at all. Is that docking Herbie the star? But it's another one that REALLY gives me consternation. Bennie Maupin, "Slow Traffic to the Right"--TWO STARS!!! Shitefeckers! That is definitely a 3.5-4-star record; very greazzy, with some nice slow early electric funk jams with Bennie moving seamlessly from bass clarinet to sax. Pity it's not available on CD. "I'd love to give the world a burn"--sorry, Coke--if only I had a burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 Boogaloo and Understanding are both 5 star records, my brothers. There is some deep shit being laid down on those tracks. AMG doesn't give Big John any props. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 More egregiously, Lovano's "Celebrating Sinatra" gets 4.5 stars from AMG. NO WAY!!! The only time I pull that disc out is when I need a coaster! I give it a half a star, as it even makes a pretty lousy coaster! Nah, it's not that bad. 3 stars, maybe 2.5 if you're being harsh. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 Dude, it's that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 I don't know, I'm sure this will raise some eyebrows, but I find AMG to be accurate much more often than not. I totally agree. Probably 75% of the time they're fairly close to what I would probably say about most albums. Still, it's nice to bitch about particular reviews you don't agree with, even if by doing so one isn't trying to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I think the AMG is GREAT!!! Not perfect, not by a long-shot. But for a free on-line resource, it's amazingly useful, and some errors of fact and/or judgement are probably to be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 Absolutely, and by the same token it is useful to have threads warning of perceived over/under-ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riverrat Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 (edited) Just noticed this thread. Dredging up the issue of "Lush Life" again, it sounded way too smooth for me as well. Moreover, I felt suckered in by the 5 star rating on AMG. I started to dabble in 50's and 60's jazz after vectoring into Wayne Shorter via Weather Report, but was baffled by the jazz section in music stores. Dozens of artists I had never heard of, who often had numerous releases spanning decades in some cases. With a limited budget, it was really hard to tell which discs I might like. Locating and buying a hard copy of the AMG Jazz Guide was a revelation. Here at last was some guidance on what artists and sessions, out of the thousands available, I should buy. I spent many hours perusing the entries, learning about the lives and careers of people like Lee Morgan, Art Blakey, Horace Silver, Kenny Dorham, Hank Mobley, etc etc etc. Finding the updated online AMG site was similarly revelatory. Bottom line for me is that there are bound to be disagreements and inconsistencies with subjective ratings of jazz music. AMG is certainly not infallible, and the rating of "Lush Life" is, IMO, a perfect example of that. But I continue to use it to guide my purchases, and find that Scott Yanow's entries at least seem to be consistent with my tastes most of the time. Edited August 12, 2003 by riverrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 More egregiously, Lovano's "Celebrating Sinatra" gets 4.5 stars from AMG. NO WAY!!! The only time I pull that disc out is when I need a coaster! I give it a half a star, as it even makes a pretty lousy coaster! Nah, it's not that bad. 3 stars, maybe 2.5 if you're being harsh. Guy In all honesty, I'll add one star if someone can tell me how to filter out a certain spouse's vocals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted August 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 AMG's ratings for John Patton's BN output... 1963Â Along Came John (4-stars) 1963Â Blue John (4.5 stars)Â 1964Â The Way I Feel (3-stars) 1965Â Oh Baby! (4-stars) 1965Â Let 'em Roll (5-stars) 1966Â Got a Good Thing Goin' (4.5 stars) 1968Â That Certain Feeling (3-stars) 1968Â Boogaloo (2.5-stars)Â 1968Â Understanding (2-stars)Â 1969Â Accent on the Blues (3-stars) 1969Â Memphis to New York Spirit (3-stars) While you're at this, would love to see your comments on the Andrew Hill discography as compared to AMG, Rooster. B) Up for Rooster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 In all honesty, I'll add one star if someone can tell me how to filter out a certain spouse's vocals... Is this ever a good idea?!? Thank God my wife knows she can't sing jazz and would never ask to be on a record of mine. This I promise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 While you're at this, would love to see your comments on the Andrew Hill discography as compared to AMG, Rooster. B) Missed this the first time. I'll look it over, and try to post something here soon. I don't have quite everything in the Hill catalog, but I've got quite a bit more than I've not got. ( Trouble is that the Hill Mosaic removes much of my notion of what each particular album is like (as a single unit), so much of it all runs together for me, especially for all those dates after "Point of Departure". ) Just glancing at it very quickly now, though, I'd have to say that they've got it mostly pretty much right, or at least there aren't any big glaring errors in judgement, from my perspective. OK, looking at just his Blue Note output in the 60's, I don't think I'd probably change any star-rating by any more than plus or minus one full star, or (more likey) plus or minus half-a-star. And non of my changes would change the relative order of the importance of Hill's BN albums. I'll look more closely at his entire catalog (and the star-ratings in the AMG), and report back to this thread what changes I might suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Johnson Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 *blows dust off his copy of Blue John* FINE. I'm flying to Seattle this afternoon, so I will listen to this on the trip and post some thoughts about it, for any interested, when I return. I mean, 400 some-odd board members can't be wrong, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted August 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Again, I rate "Blue John" at 3.5 stars or so. It's not bad. It's just not worth 4.5. I certainly wouldn't sell or trade my copy. BTW. I'm shipping off "Lush Life" to you today. (Haven't got your check yet, but I'm sure it will arrive any day now.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Again, I rate "Blue John" at 3.5 stars or so. It's not bad. It's just not worth 4.5. I certainly wouldn't sell or trade my copy. My opinion as well, down to the exact half-star. For me, Blue John is a very good and solid album, but nothing worth paying top-dollar import prices for, if that were the only way to get it (at least not for me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjk Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Here's a timely assertion--How about Wayne's Adam's Apple? AMG gives it 5 stars. This is a record that I listened to a few times when the McMaster edition came out, and it did little for me. I picked up the RVG two days ago to give it another chance, and I'm still not apeshit over it. Maybe I need to listen a bit more closely, but I'll give it 3 stars just because it's Wayne, 'cause Joe Chambers is on it, and 'cause it's not bad---just not very memorable to me. If I can list 5 memorable moments after listening to the record again, I'll add one more star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 (edited) AMG says that the 4-disk box set on Good Time Jazz of the complete recordings of Lou Watters and the Yerba Buena Jazz Band is "absolutely essential for all traditional jazz fans and historians." I enjoy listening to Lou Watters every now and again but... Edited September 5, 2003 by John L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 I think Blue John is a really fun album, quite crazy in an entertaining sort of way! And that lead off track really sticks in the head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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