BFT46 main disc. Discussion thread

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

8. Comedy time .... that background track is again very familiar. But ...... my head is too numb.

This is my entry for the "Why do people pay to hear music then talk while it's being played" thread, competition

MG

[John B]

8. Comedy time .... that background track is again very familiar. But ...... my head is too numb.

This is my entry for the "Why do people pay to hear music then talk while it's being played" thread, competition

MG

I have no clue who the musicians are on track #8 but one of the two guys talking really sounds like Howlin' Wolf.

It's a fun track, and the talking distracts from my being able to focus on the musicians, but I guess that's kind fo the point. Silly, and I assume it would grow old after a while but fun. It sounds like a group of younger modern musicians trying to sound like they were playing at the local juke joint / rib shop back in the day.

9. The tenor sounds familiar, but I'm not having any luck identifying him. I like this tune a lot. No idea who any of the palyers are.

10. A nice calypso groove, but I find the playing too be too restrained and smooth. I'm bugged by how "sytnesizery" everything sounds, too. Not the worst thing I've ever heard but I'm not inclined to spend more time exploring this music. There is definitely some talent and interesting ideas here, but I'd be a lot more into this if they would cut loose and be less polite.

11. They take a riff and ride it into the ground, having a blast doing it. Nothing too deep here but a fun track to add to a party mix. No idea who the musicians are.

12. This really sounds like the Jazz Crusaders, but I don't hear the full band. I'll guess this is Wilton Felder on tenor, either on an early session of his or on another artists Pacific Jazz session. Very nice track.

Edited April 13, 2007 by John B

[John B]

13. - great burning track, no clue who anyone is. The tenor really shines for me. Is this a live recording? I didn't think it was but there is somebody yelling out just before the end of the track. This will be another one for the "to buy" list.

14. - No clue who this is. Not a bad track, but I suspect it suffers from being placed after 13 other organ-centric tracks.

15. - A very nice track. It starts of burning really slowly, gets greasier and raunchier until I almost expect to see clothing go flying from the stage and settles back down before raising the levels again. A really fun track and very well placed before #16.

16. - A very nice way to end the disc. Solo and soulful.

As I said before, I had a blast listening to this disc! I'm looking forward to starting in on the "bonus" disc.

Thanks again!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

13. - great burning track, no clue who anyone is. The tenor really shines for me. Is this a live recording? I didn't think it was but there is somebody yelling out just before the end of the track. This will be another one for the "to buy" list.

I'm afraid you'll be looking for vinyl; never issued on CD. One LP went for $25 recently on e-bay. Oh, it's not live; shouts by musicians, engineers, producers or general hangers-on, I guess.

As I said before, I had a blast listening to this disc! I'm looking forward to starting in on the "bonus" disc.

Thanks again!

Glad you enjoyed it, John.

MG

[JSngry]

Again late to the party, for which I apologize. Life, and all that.

The usualy thanks and disclaimers are firmly in place, but this time I'll add one thing - MG told me that he doubted that too much of this music would "fool" me, or words to that effect.

WRONG!

MG, your resources are deep, dude, and I don't know that I can identify even one cut here with absolute certainty. I love it when that happens and the music is top-notch, which is definitely the case here! Oh HELL yeah!

Now, in the words of The Great One, Away We Go!

TRACK ONE - The tune itself is easy - "The Honeydripper", the Joe Liggins classic redone to grand effect by McDuff & Co, but this version I'm not familiar with. Rusty Bryant would not be out of the question, not at all. Rusty Bryant was a baaaaaad tenor player indeed! The control of tone is something you gotta respect, and if he goes for the "effects" sometimes, oh well. He nails 'em. And as his more "pure" jazz recordings have shown, this was not the only thing he could do. Far from it. HEard in the context of a jukebox 45 back in the day, this is some kickass stuff.

TRACK TWO - Absolutely no idea, but I love the altoist's tone. Sounds like halfway between Hank Crawford & Leo Wright, not at all a bad place to be. The playing by all concerned reeks with genuine soul, not the affected kind. The tune itself could be anything, but the tune is not the point, is it? It's the feeling, and that comes through unambiguously, so mission accomplished. The drummer also is appealing. Too many guys on this type date just lay it down competently but generically. This guy sounds like he's into it, and he damn well should be, what with waht the altoist is putting down!

TRACK THREE - "Dark Eyes" of course, and again, excellent jukebox-in-its-time fodder. No idea. Big, brawny, and not even an attempt at subtlety. Yet there's a high degree of professionalism, control, and expertise in everybody's playing that gives it a level of class that it didn't have to have to do what it set out to do. I kinda dig that.

TRACK FOUR - "Moment's Notice", a tune that's kinda on my "heard it once too often" list at this point. But this is a good version. The problem I have with this tune is the same as with "Giant Steps" - the changes are so detailed (and non-traditional) that too many guys get so hung up in the math that they lose track of saying something. The guitar player does this more than the organist, but both do it. Having said that, I've heard far worse offenders, and this one is actually quite pleasant until you start hearing the math. And even then, it's still a fun casual listen.

TRACK FIVE - Son Of After Hours, and definitely a 45! The speed of the groove noise gives that away immediately! Tenor player sounds like King Curtis in spots, but not so in others. Definitely a groove happening here.

TRACK SIX - Son Of Honky Tonk, and definitely the same 45! Tenor player is a lot more take-charge here than on the flip side,and I could definitely lean towards King Curtis now. The organist I couldn't begin to guess, but he's in control on both sides. Good stuff

TRACK SEVEN - I've heard about (but haven't heard) some Hal Singer sides recorded in France in the late-60s(?) that take a Nationalist vibe in both message & musical approach. I would suspect that they might sound something like this. This is some good stuff, inspired, connecting the old Soul Jazz w/the then-newer musical/political vibe, which makes a lot of sense, because the old Soul Jazz, the real stuff, never even tried to appease "White" sensibilities. You came to it on its own unique turf or you didn't get there at all (or else you found the white guys who were copping the stuff - sincerely or otherwise - & stayed there because it was more "comfortable"). This is some bad shit! I'm eager to find out who it is. There's defintiely an "entertainment" factor to parts of this, but I don't think its for any other purposes than stealth, and I'm all in favor of that.

TRACK EIGHT - Well the tune is a no-brainer, "Chicken Shack". Somebody's talking about "white guys", so maybe this is Roomful of Blues or somebody like that. "Mama, is your husband married?"

Gotta did some sleuthing, and I think I found the answer.

Ok, I could do without the "cleverness" of "recreating" a vibe, which by extension is an attempt to garner "credibility" by association. Hell, that's just not necessary with playing at this level, especially seeing who the main players are. But I guess you gotta do what you gotta do... In the end, the music (and the groove) speaks for itself, and here it speaks strongly.

TRACK NINE - Right where it needs to be. Tenor player takes his time (and that's a big beef of mine about so many of today's players - they don't leave no space). Nothing "special" but special precisely because of that, if you know what I mean. A slice of a life that doesn't exist any more, except in a few very isolated pockets, even though it's widely re-created. This is the real deal in real time.

TRACK TEN - More soul. Lots of it. The tenor player...it's not Arnett Cobb, I don't think, but he has a similar bigass, slightly "weepy" sound. Beautiful! Good band, good groove, nobody's phoning it in, and if it's not anything "exceptional", like the track before it, it's exceptional precisely because of that. Very, very satisfying.

TRACK ELEVEN - "Jive Samba". The organ tone reminds me of Wild Bill Davis, a player I love. But this one has the sound of "gigdom" to me, like they're playing it but not really into it. Pros that they all are, they turn in quite a good performance. But I ain't feelin' it all the way. Oh well. Shit happens.

TRACK TWELVE - First guess is Jazz Crusaders w/Groove Holems, but I dunno... That doesn't really sound like Wilton Felder to me...Fine player though...maybe getting over on style more than substance a little bit...No clue, but it sounds like something done in the early days of "Soul Jazz Fad" . It's ok, but other things on this BFT hit me harder & realer.

TRACK THIRTEEN - Like this bad boy here! Oh HELL yeah! I want this record, and I want it now. Them motherf&^Ers are PLAYING! No bullshit, just play the tenor! I'm thinking that one of them is Red Holloway, and that that drummer is God his ownself, at least for the moment.

If this the last music I heard in this life, it would be a blessing. Square business.

TRACK FOURTEEN - Drummer reminds me of Joe Dukes... VERY nice tenor playing, that Jug-thru-Prez (or vice-versa) thing...Yeah, again, no bullshit, all music, pure soul. What else do you want? Ok, sometimes something "more", but what else do you need? Not a damn thing, and I'll gladly take it in any "form" in which it is delivered. This works just fine, thank you, even if it starts out like it's going to be a quick radio-ready track and then goes off into album-length territory. That's most likely a producer's decision, and the players make it work.

TRACK FIFTEEN - Don't know why, but the guitarist reminds me of Melvin Sparks...Altoist sounds like it's not his main horn, embrochure & fingering sound a little shakey, like he's a tenor player who picks up alto every so often. It's a different animal altogether, really it is...But the cat can play, no doubt. Now this guitarist...this is it, Jack! Can't think of anybody but Sparks who plays with this much fluency and this much down-homeness this naturally, not off the top of my head... Very nice.

TRACK SIXTEEN - Gospel organ. Is this the Kynard PJ thing? A good friend hooked me up w/a copy, and I listened to it and dug it, but I can't say that I remember the specifics, just the general goodness of it all.

Well yeah, gospel organ, that's a whole 'nother bag right there, and jazz organ fans who favor the more "expressive" aspects of the instrument are in for a real ear-opener if/when they start to delve into this stuff. Talk about speaking in tongues, I've heard some gospel organists just go waaaay deep into that. By no means have I heard a lot of it, but I've heard enough to know that there's a deep well of both instrumental and spiritual inspiration to be had.

Ok, thanks for a most enjoyable BFT. Time to check out others responses & see what I've hit or, more likely, missed. I assure you, BIG fun was had!

[JSngry]

Ok, I see that #10s been identified, and I am embarassed! Just shows you that you can have things in your collection & forget that you do. But that would be Bubba Brooks on tenor then, right?

[JSngry]

Is the single one of McGriff's Sue things?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Ok, I see that #10s been identified, and I am embarassed! Just shows you that you can have things in your collection & forget that you do. But that would be Bubba Brooks on tenor then, right?

Yep! You've got this then? So you know who the drummer is? And the organist?

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Is the single one of McGriff's Sue things?

I assume you mean #5 & 6: no. And I was hoping you might be able to nail the sax player, who's not credited.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Again late to the party, for which I apologize. Life, and all that.

The usualy thanks and disclaimers are firmly in place, but this time I'll add one thing - MG told me that he doubted that too much of this music would "fool" me, or words to that effect.

WRONG!

MG, your resources are deep, dude, and I don't know that I can identify even one cut here with absolute certainty. I love it when that happens and the music is top-notch, which is definitely the case here! Oh HELL yeah!

I'm glad you enjoyed it Jim. And there's moore than a sense that you don't HAVE to id this stuff to know what it's about.

TRACK SIXTEEN - Gospel organ. Is this the Kynard PJ thing? A good friend hooked me up w/a copy, and I listened to it and dug it, but I can't say that I remember the specifics, just the general goodness of it all.

Well yeah, gospel organ, that's a whole 'nother bag right there, and jazz organ fans who favor the more "expressive" aspects of the instrument are in for a real ear-opener if/when they start to delve into this stuff. Talk about speaking in tongues, I've heard some gospel organists just go waaaay deep into that. By no means have I heard a lot of it, but I've heard enough to know that there's a deep well of both instrumental and spiritual inspiration to be had.

Ok, thanks for a most enjoyable BFT. Time to check out others responses & see what I've hit or, more likely, missed. I assure you, BIG fun was had!

Well, it's not Charles Kynard. I think Dan would have jumped down on that! The only hope I had of anyone identifying this one was you, 'cos it's kinda local, I think.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Doing these a bit at a time, or I get lost.

TRACK ONE - The tune itself is easy - "The Honeydripper", the Joe Liggins classic redone to grand effect by McDuff & Co, but this version I'm not familiar with. Rusty Bryant would not be out of the question, not at all. Rusty Bryant was a baaaaaad tenor player indeed! The control of tone is something you gotta respect, and if he goes for the "effects" sometimes, oh well. He nails 'em. And as his more "pure" jazz recordings have shown, this was not the only thing he could do. Far from it. HEard in the context of a jukebox 45 back in the day, this is some kickass stuff.

Not Rusty. But I'm sure you know this tenor player.

TRACK TWO - Absolutely no idea, but I love the altoist's tone. Sounds like halfway between Hank Crawford & Leo Wright, not at all a bad place to be. The playing by all concerned reeks with genuine soul, not the affected kind. The tune itself could be anything, but the tune is not the point, is it? It's the feeling, and that comes through unambiguously, so mission accomplished. The drummer also is appealing. Too many guys on this type date just lay it down competently but generically. This guy sounds like he's into it, and he damn well should be, what with waht the altoist is putting down!

I'm astounded you didn't get this. A few days ago, you posted something that made me feel sure you'd got this one.

TRACK THREE - "Dark Eyes" of course, and again, excellent jukebox-in-its-time fodder. No idea. Big, brawny, and not even an attempt at subtlety. Yet there's a high degree of professionalism, control, and expertise in everybody's playing that gives it a level of class that it didn't have to have to do what it set out to do. I kinda dig that.

Funny thing about this, I'm almost 100% certain it wasn't intended as juke-box fodder.

TRACK FOUR - "Moment's Notice", a tune that's kinda on my "heard it once too often" list at this point. But this is a good version. The problem I have with this tune is the same as with "Giant Steps" - the changes are so detailed (and non-traditional) that too many guys get so hung up in the math that they lose track of saying something. The guitar player does this more than the organist, but both do it. Having said that, I've heard far worse offenders, and this one is actually quite pleasant until you start hearing the math. And even then, it's still a fun casual listen.

Well, I can't hear the maths, Jim. Sorry...

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

TRACK EIGHT - Well the tune is a no-brainer, "Chicken Shack". Somebody's talking about "white guys", so maybe this is Roomful of Blues or somebody like that. "Mama, is your husband married?"

Gotta did some sleuthing, and I think I found the answer.

Ok, I could do without the "cleverness" of "recreating" a vibe, which by extension is an attempt to garner "credibility" by association. Hell, that's just not necessary with playing at this level, especially seeing who the main players are. But I guess you gotta do what you gotta do... In the end, the music (and the groove) speaks for itself, and here it speaks strongly.

Yep, you got that one, Jim!

Well, it is "Back at the Chicken Shack" and perhaps Jimmy Smith, Stanley, Kenny & Donald ought to have overdubbed a conversation on the original version. (But Alfred wouldn't have allowed it.) So since they didn't...

TRACK ELEVEN - "Jive Samba". The organ tone reminds me of Wild Bill Davis, a player I love. But this one has the sound of "gigdom" to me, like they're playing it but not really into it. Pros that they all are, they turn in quite a good performance. But I ain't feelin' it all the way. Oh well. Shit happens.

Wild Bill Davis it is. And a tenor player you know (or maybe knew personally).

TRACK TWELVE - First guess is Jazz Crusaders w/Groove Holems, but I dunno... That doesn't really sound like Wilton Felder to me...Fine player though...maybe getting over on style more than substance a little bit...No clue, but it sounds like something done in the early days of "Soul Jazz Fad" . It's ok, but other things on this BFT hit me harder & realer.

You guessed the same as John; nearly right. So what's the tune? (No, it isn't "So what".)

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

TRACK THIRTEEN - Like this bad boy here! Oh HELL yeah! I want this record, and I want it now. Them motherf&^Ers are PLAYING! No bullshit, just play the tenor! I'm thinking that one of them is Red Holloway, and that that drummer is God his ownself, at least for the moment.

If this the last music I heard in this life, it would be a blessing. Square business.

Not available, but comes up on vinyl from time to time. Not too pricey. Most people don't know how good thi is.

TRACK FOURTEEN - Drummer reminds me of Joe Dukes... VERY nice tenor playing, that Jug-thru-Prez (or vice-versa) thing...Yeah, again, no bullshit, all music, pure soul. What else do you want? Ok, sometimes something "more", but what else do you need? Not a damn thing, and I'll gladly take it in any "form" in which it is delivered. This works just fine, thank you, even if it starts out like it's going to be a quick radio-ready track and then goes off into album-length territory. That's most likely a producer's decision, and the players make it work.

Not Joe on drums. You know the tenor player.

TRACK FIFTEEN - Don't know why, but the guitarist reminds me of Melvin Sparks...Altoist sounds like it's not his main horn, embrochure & fingering sound a little shakey, like he's a tenor player who picks up alto every so often. It's a different animal altogether, really it is...But the cat can play, no doubt. Now this guitarist...this is it, Jack! Can't think of anybody but Sparks who plays with this much fluency and this much down-homeness this naturally, not off the top of my head... Very nice.

Not Mel. Not an alto player either. He's a tenor player who used to play with the band in #14, after the guy in #14 (And another local man.)

MG

[JSngry]

Ok, I see that #10s been identified, and I am embarassed! Just shows you that you can have things in your collection & forget that you do. But that would be Bubba Brooks on tenor then, right?

Yep! You've got this then? So you know who the drummer is? And the organist?

MG

I don't remember offhand, but I think the organist is Don Pullen.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Ok, I see that #10s been identified, and I am embarassed! Just shows you that you can have things in your collection & forget that you do. But that would be Bubba Brooks on tenor then, right?

Yep! You've got this then? So you know who the drummer is? And the organist?

MG

I don't remember offhand, but I think the organist is Don Pullen.

Yep!

MG

[Soulstation1]

Could someone in the us send me a cdr of MG's BFT??

thnks

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Could someone in the us send me a cdr of MG's BFT??

thnks

Downloads not working for you SS1?

I think I did something unsuitable for Mac users. Sorry.

MG

[JSngry]

TRACK TWO - Absolutely no idea, but I love the altoist's tone. Sounds like halfway between Hank Crawford & Leo Wright, not at all a bad place to be. The playing by all concerned reeks with genuine soul, not the affected kind. The tune itself could be anything, but the tune is not the point, is it? It's the feeling, and that comes through unambiguously, so mission accomplished. The drummer also is appealing. Too many guys on this type date just lay it down competently but generically. This guy sounds like he's into it, and he damn well should be, what with waht the altoist is putting down!

I'm astounded you didn't get this. A few days ago, you posted something that made me feel sure you'd got this one.

Oh bollocks (as it were...), that's Fathead on alto, isn't it. I can always get him on tenor right away, but on alto, for some reason, sometimes it takes a while. Weird...

[JSngry]

TRACK FIFTEEN - Don't know why, but the guitarist reminds me of Melvin Sparks...Altoist sounds like it's not his main horn, embrochure & fingering sound a little shakey, like he's a tenor player who picks up alto every so often. It's a different animal altogether, really it is...But the cat can play, no doubt. Now this guitarist...this is it, Jack! Can't think of anybody but Sparks who plays with this much fluency and this much down-homeness this naturally, not off the top of my head... Very nice.

Not Mel. Not an alto player either. He's a tenor player who used to play with the band in #14, after the guy in #14 (And another local man.)

MG

Sorry dude, that's an alto, if you mean to say that it's a tenor being played on this cut. Now if you mean to agree with me that it's a tenor player playing alto, yeah. But that's not a tenor being played on this cut, unless you're playing a 33 @ 45.

But would the guitarist be another Mel? Brown, perhaps?

Edited April 22, 2007 by JSngry

[JSngry]

TRACK TWELVE - First guess is Jazz Crusaders w/Groove Holems, but I dunno... That doesn't really sound like Wilton Felder to me...Fine player though...maybe getting over on style more than substance a little bit...No clue, but it sounds like something done in the early days of "Soul Jazz Fad" . It's ok, but other things on this BFT hit me harder & realer.

You guessed the same as John; nearly right. So what's the tune? (No, it isn't "So what".)

MG

Groove Holmes w/o The Crusaders?

Damn, this cut is starting to sound familiar... Curtis Amy?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

TRACK TWO - Absolutely no idea, but I love the altoist's tone. Sounds like halfway between Hank Crawford & Leo Wright, not at all a bad place to be. The playing by all concerned reeks with genuine soul, not the affected kind. The tune itself could be anything, but the tune is not the point, is it? It's the feeling, and that comes through unambiguously, so mission accomplished. The drummer also is appealing. Too many guys on this type date just lay it down competently but generically. This guy sounds like he's into it, and he damn well should be, what with waht the altoist is putting down!

I'm astounded you didn't get this. A few days ago, you posted something that made me feel sure you'd got this one.

Oh bollocks (as it were...), that's Fathead on alto, isn't it. I can always get him on tenor right away, but on alto, for some reason, sometimes it takes a while. Weird...

Nope.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

TRACK FIFTEEN - Don't know why, but the guitarist reminds me of Melvin Sparks...Altoist sounds like it's not his main horn, embrochure & fingering sound a little shakey, like he's a tenor player who picks up alto every so often. It's a different animal altogether, really it is...But the cat can play, no doubt. Now this guitarist...this is it, Jack! Can't think of anybody but Sparks who plays with this much fluency and this much down-homeness this naturally, not off the top of my head... Very nice.

Not Mel. Not an alto player either. He's a tenor player who used to play with the band in #14, after the guy in #14 (And another local man.)

MG

Sorry dude, that's an alto, if you mean to say that it's a tenor being played on this cut. Now if you mean to agree with me that it's a tenor player playing alto, yeah. But that's not a tenor being played on this cut, unless you're playing a 33 @ 45.

But would the guitarist be another Mel? Brown, perhaps?

I bow to your obvious expertise on the alto/tenor thing. Just listened to it again and, yes, it does sound like an alto playing in a certain way - actually, the tone is a bit like the guy on #11 of the bonus disc (though it isn't him - that's not a clue).

So, there's a tenor player on this record and an alto player. But the alto player is kind of just part of the horn section, whereas the tenor player gets better billing, so I've always assumed it was the tenor player. If this is the alto player, well, I dunno. As far as I know, the tenor player didn't play alto on other recordings. Which doesn't mean he couldn't or didn't here.

But the guitarist ain't Mel Brown, either.

MG

[JSngry]

Alright, you're giving me an inferiority complex!

Would Milt Buckner be the organist on #1?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Groove Holmes w/o The Crusaders?

Damn, this cut is starting to sound familiar... Curtis Amy?

Nope. Nope.

MG

[JSngry]

TRACK TWO - Absolutely no idea, but I love the altoist's tone. Sounds like halfway between Hank Crawford & Leo Wright, not at all a bad place to be. The playing by all concerned reeks with genuine soul, not the affected kind. The tune itself could be anything, but the tune is not the point, is it? It's the feeling, and that comes through unambiguously, so mission accomplished. The drummer also is appealing. Too many guys on this type date just lay it down competently but generically. This guy sounds like he's into it, and he damn well should be, what with waht the altoist is putting down!

I'm astounded you didn't get this. A few days ago, you posted something that made me feel sure you'd got this one.

Oh bollocks (as it were...), that's Fathead on alto, isn't it. I can always get him on tenor right away, but on alto, for some reason, sometimes it takes a while. Weird...

Nope.

MG

Oh shit!