brownie Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Charlie Shavers blasting it out! Video from Art Ford's 'Jazz Party' filmed in September 1958. With Shavers and Coleman Hawkins are JC Higginbotham (not Wilbur de Paris as the film title states), Pee Wee Russell, Willie The Lion Smith, Dicky Thompson on guitar, Vinnie Burke on bass, Sonny Greer on drums and Harry Shepard at the vibes. Avalon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted April 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 what confused me was remembering Dan Morgenstern remarking that because of the proximity of the two deaths, Shavers got virtually no attention - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 what confused me was remembering Dan Morgenstern remarking that because of the proximity of the two deaths, Shavers got virtually no attention - I'm sure your confusion has deeper roots than that memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownian Motion Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 what confused me was remembering Dan Morgenstern remarking that because of the proximity of the two deaths, Shavers got virtually no attention - Well, at least he's getting it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmilovan Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 (edited) Putting Roy and Charlie side by side, and telling that Roy was more melodic, in some way better than Charlie, I found inappropriate, unfair to hear... Surely, Roy was melodic player, but Charlie too, and his technique helped him a lot in developing strong music ideas and motifs in his playing. Speaking of favorite discs with Shavers I like John Kirby Sextet the most (give me anything to listen from that wonderfull band), and then: Edited April 11, 2007 by mmilovan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted April 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 how charlie shavers died harvey shapiro he had a gig but he was hurting. his doctor said, play the date, then check into the hospital. that night, when the party ended and the band packed up, charlie started to give stuff away--- his watch, his rings-to the women in the room. then he circled the room with his horn playing: "for all i know we may never meet again at this point, the man who was telling the story in the locker room at the manhattan plaza gym and who has sung the line slowly, with a pause between each word, began to cry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 A nice, humorously boppish Shavers solo with Dorsey on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUbh4REDnC0 What chops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 I love Shavers, but watrching some of these clips I do think that there is a stylistic confusion in his playing which is sometimes appropriate, sometimes not - he was certainly entitled to throw in a little Dizzy, a little Roy and a little Louis, beause he knew how to do it well - but there are times I want him to settle on something - the mix of styles can work, a la Jaki Byard, but sometimes it becomes just a mix and not a whole - on the other hand, as Larry has pointed out, the Hawk track is great; and as soon as I go home tonight I'll check out that Dorsey clip - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 I love Shavers, but watrching some of these clips I do think that there is a stylistic confusion in his playing which is sometimes appropriate, sometimes not - he was certainly entitled to throw in a little Dizzy, a little Roy and a little Louis, beause he knew how to do it well - but there are times I want him to settle on something - the mix of styles can work, a la Jaki Byard, but sometimes it becomes just a mix and not a whole - on the other hand, as Larry has pointed out, the Hawk track is great; and as soon as I go home tonight I'll check out that Dorsey clip - I know what you mean, but at least some of time I think that for Shavers that frequently surrealistic mix of styles was the point -- that at the heart of his music there was an impish, "let's melt some watches" streak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 absolutely - and he walked that fine line expertly - I have a phrase that I repeat too often, which is that there is a difference between mannerism and style - and I think Shavers is a good example of the difficulty, sometimes, presented to the critic and listener in distinguishing the two - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 (edited) The good side of Charlie Shavers is evidenced in the splendid reissue from Jazz Factory 'Gene Krupa Complete Sextet Studio Sessions' that reunites three of those Krupa dates. Shavers is on all three. There is also superb playing by Ben Webster on one of those sessions. Plus Willie Smith and Eddie Davis on the others. And Teddy Wilson on pîano throughout! If Verve had done its job properly, this CD would have been reissued under their banner! Edited April 12, 2007 by brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted April 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 (edited) in 1970, shavers spoke of the kirby group as the best he ever worked in. would it be a fair inference that he favored this style of playing, or that this was his truest style? Edited April 12, 2007 by alocispepraluger102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastreichler Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 This one has some great Charlie Shavers (I have these sessions on a compilation by the Doormouse label under the title "Session at Midnight / Session at Riverside"). Edison and Shavers are not playing together, they're on different sessions, the one with Shavers among others also has Billy Butterfield, Lou McGarity, Coleman Hawkins, Osie Johnson. He is on some of the Norman Granz Jam Sessions too, a highlight being the one with Charlie Parker, Benny Carter and Johnny Hodges. Shavers has some strong moments on Ernie Wilkins' "The Big New Band Of The 60's" (I have the Fresh Sound edition). Recommended are the sessions with Budd Johnson on "The Stanley Dance Sessions" on Lonehill (I know ..., but they are not otherwise available). Charlie Shavers has many great recordings in the 40's as a sideman of Teddy Wilson, Coleman Hawkins, Sidney Bechet. Finally I second the recommendation for "Hawk Eyes" by Coleman Hawkins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 Putting Roy and Charlie side by side, and telling that Roy was more melodic, in some way better than Charlie, I found inappropriate, unfair to hear... Surely, Roy was melodic player, but Charlie too, and his technique helped him a lot in developing strong music ideas and motifs in his playing. Speaking of favorite discs with Shavers I like John Kirby Sextet the most (give me anything to listen from that wonderfull band).... Let me second(or third) the comments about the John Kirby group!!! Wonderful, wonderful music! It's be too long since I played any, but I believe Charlie only plays muted trumpet on the recordings??? He played for quite some time with Tommy Dorsey, about the only African-American in his band, IIRC. The now out of print cd, Tommy Dorsey and his Orchestra-The Post War Era, mentions how they had to do around 20 takes of "The Hucklebuck" since Charlie was having a terrible time singing a stretched out Sacroiliac!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted August 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 Putting Roy and Charlie side by side, and telling that Roy was more melodic, in some way better than Charlie, I found inappropriate, unfair to hear... Surely, Roy was melodic player, but Charlie too, and his technique helped him a lot in developing strong music ideas and motifs in his playing. Speaking of favorite discs with Shavers I like John Kirby Sextet the most (give me anything to listen from that wonderfull band), and then: the aloc vehemently agrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 Putting Roy and Charlie side by side, and telling that Roy was more melodic, in some way better than Charlie, I found inappropriate, unfair to hear... Surely, Roy was melodic player, but Charlie too, and his technique helped him a lot in developing strong music ideas and motifs in his playing. Speaking of favorite discs with Shavers I like John Kirby Sextet the most (give me anything to listen from that wonderfull band).... Let me second(or third) the comments about the John Kirby group!!! Wonderful, wonderful music! It's be too long since I played any, but I believe Charlie only plays muted trumpet on the recordings??? He played for quite some time with Tommy Dorsey, about the only African-American in his band, IIRC. The now out of print cd, Tommy Dorsey and his Orchestra-The Post War Era, mentions how they had to do around 20 takes of "The Hucklebuck" since Charlie was having a terrible time singing a stretched out Sacroiliac!!! I've never heard anything of the John Kirby band, though I've always heard how good the band was. Anyone got some recommendations for currently available stuff? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 Beryl Booker (sweet lady) surrounded by friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 (edited) Putting Roy and Charlie side by side, and telling that Roy was more melodic, in some way better than Charlie, I found inappropriate, unfair to hear... Surely, Roy was melodic player, but Charlie too, and his technique helped him a lot in developing strong music ideas and motifs in his playing. Speaking of favorite discs with Shavers I like John Kirby Sextet the most (give me anything to listen from that wonderfull band).... Let me second(or third) the comments about the John Kirby group!!! Wonderful, wonderful music! It's be too long since I played any, but I believe Charlie only plays muted trumpet on the recordings??? He played for quite some time with Tommy Dorsey, about the only African-American in his band, IIRC. The now out of print cd, Tommy Dorsey and his Orchestra-The Post War Era, mentions how they had to do around 20 takes of "The Hucklebuck" since Charlie was having a terrible time singing a stretched out Sacroiliac!!! I've never heard anything of the John Kirby band, though I've always heard how good the band was. Anyone got some recommendations for currently available stuff? MG MG, it is always shocking to me to see how many cds I own that have gone out of print since I bought them! Since I see none of the ones I own in print on amazon(At least the U.S. version) here is one that sounds pretty darn good, with 2 very positive reviews. http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Columbia-RC...s/dp/B00004Z55U Oh, if you haven't heard much of the young Maxine Sullivan , you are in for a pleasant surprise there as well! Edited August 11, 2007 by BERIGAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Putting Roy and Charlie side by side, and telling that Roy was more melodic, in some way better than Charlie, I found inappropriate, unfair to hear... Surely, Roy was melodic player, but Charlie too, and his technique helped him a lot in developing strong music ideas and motifs in his playing. Speaking of favorite discs with Shavers I like John Kirby Sextet the most (give me anything to listen from that wonderfull band).... Let me second(or third) the comments about the John Kirby group!!! Wonderful, wonderful music! It's be too long since I played any, but I believe Charlie only plays muted trumpet on the recordings??? He played for quite some time with Tommy Dorsey, about the only African-American in his band, IIRC. The now out of print cd, Tommy Dorsey and his Orchestra-The Post War Era, mentions how they had to do around 20 takes of "The Hucklebuck" since Charlie was having a terrible time singing a stretched out Sacroiliac!!! I've never heard anything of the John Kirby band, though I've always heard how good the band was. Anyone got some recommendations for currently available stuff? MG MG, it is always shocking to me to see how many cds I own that have gone out of print since I bought them! Since I see none of the ones I own in print on amazon(At least the U.S. version) here is one that sounds pretty darn good, with 2 very positive reviews. http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Columbia-RC...s/dp/B00004Z55U Oh, if you haven't heard much of the young Maxine Sullivan , you are in for a pleasant surprise there as well! Thanks Berigan - I knew I could rely on you! And I couldn't resist the price - Amazon.com is half the price of Amazon.co.uk, even with extra postage! I haven't heard much Maxine - I have 2 cuts from 1944 on a compilation that's mostly Una Mae Carlisle. Actually, not too impressive compared to UMC and Savannah (who's also present). MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Maxine's singing showed a vast improvement as she aged--you ought to listen to some of her performances on Concord, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Maxine's singing showed a vast improvement as she aged--you ought to listen to some of her performances on Concord, for example. That was true of Gloria Lynne, as well. I see she has a new album out and will have to investigate. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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