Andrew Hill's Time Lines

[Kreilly]

This may be a stretch but I'm listening to disc one of the excellent Jimmy Lyons box set on Ayler Records and Raphe Malik's trumpet distinctly reminds me of Charles Tolliver's playing on the most recent Andrew Hill release, particularly the title track. Disc 1 was recorded in 1972 in Sam Rivers' loft. I checked Hill's discography and see no dates with Lyons. I wonder if Tolliver was influenced by Malik. Any ideas?

Kevin

[relyles]

Considering that Tolliver was recording in the mid-sixties I doubt he was influenced by Malik. Maybe the other way around? To my ears, Tolliver's playing is not that far removed from what he has done all along. I enjoy Malik's playing as well, but I will have to go back to see if I hear any similarities.

[Kreilly]

Considering that Tolliver was recording in the mid-sixties I doubt he was influenced by Malik. Maybe the other way around? To my ears, Tolliver's playing is not that far removed from what he has done all along. I enjoy Malik's playing as well, but I will have to go back to see if I hear any similarities.

I'm only familiar with Tolliver's Blue Note recordings with Jackie MeLean. He seems much more reserved on Hill's latest. I know it's a stretch but influences may continue to accrue over the course of one's career. I was listening to the Lyons disc and I thought it sounded familiar in parts but it was only that I was hearing Time Lines in my head. It could be compositional. Perhaps they are simply superficial similarities and betray no influence.

Edited April 18, 2007 by Kreilly

[JSngry]

There was a Malik interview in Cadence back in the day whre he copped to Donald Ayler a his big influence.

Ayler, Malik, & Tolliver all to one degree or another play(ed) the trumpet as a percussion instrument first and a melodic instrument second. It's a thing, and more power to it.

[Kreilly]

There was a Malik interview in Cadence back in the day whre he copped to Donald Ayler a his big influence.

Ayler, Malik, & Tolliver all to one degree or another play(ed) the trumpet as a percussion instrument first and a melodic instrument second. It's a thing, and more power to it.

That's it! Yes, it's the percussive sound. Thanks for the insight.

Kevin

[JSngry]

You're certainly welcome.

That thing has been part of jazz trumpet (and jazz in general) since the git-go, if not earlier. Different players put a differnt amount of emphasis on it, but its one of the things that makes "jazz" what it is, that communication directly through rhythm/percussiveness.

Perhaps not so coincidentally, I've been hearing a fair amount of "broken beat" dance music that sounds for all the world as if it's rooted directly in Tolliver's Music Inc.-era compositional style. If you ask me (and I know you didn't), I think that a lot of "jazz fans" either underestimate or are just not "aware" of how much can be communicated directly through rhythm/percussiveness and instead focus on things like tone, harmony, melodicism, etc. That's all good, that's all part of it, but cats like the three mentioned above (to name but a few) show that you don't really need too much of that other stuff to make jazz that hits you where you live.

[clifford_thornton]

Reece, when I interviewed him, talked a lot about percussion and its relationship to both the trumpet in particular, and of course to the music in general. Lest one forget he was also a conguero.

I need to listen to Tolliver a bit more closely, because I've not thought of him in this respect as an instrumentalist, though his tunes are often very rhythmic, and quite often eliptically so.

Raphe Malik - YES.

I was thinking recently how the brass music of composer Rhys Chatham sounds like isolated (minimalist) variants on the martial themes of Ayler and Don Cherry. Might be worth a listen for some out there.

Edited April 19, 2007 by clifford_thornton

[ep1str0phy]

Tolliver--especially as a big band man--has always come across to me as machine-gun hard. Folks will say that he was coming out of a Freddie Hubbard thing, or through that strain of "intelligent" (no disrespect, of course) Browniphiles, but--and thanks for this, JS--I've heard him coming out of a more strident (more direct?) percussive line. He's sort of like an analog to George Adams (or, for that matter, Tolliver's some-time partner Billy Harper) for me--sizing down the drive and fusillade intensity of the energy guys for a more "in" bag.

I really, really like the Donald Ayler observation. I've been listening to the Ayler box recently, and I can hear the similarities between Don's more ecstatic moments and Tolliver on, for example, Impact--push, push PUSH.