another horse dead at the derby

[alocispepraluger102]

i am glad i gave up watching that cruel 'sport' 20 years ago, although it wont help the poor beasts any.

"Favorite Big Brown wins Kentucky Derby

May 3 06:25 PM US/Eastern

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) - Big Brown won the Kentucky Derby on Saturday, living up to his status as the pre-race favorite.

Filly Eight Belles was second, but she broke down as the 20-horse field galloped out past the finish line.

She was later euthanized on the track."

[Aggie87]

With the quality of medicine today, why would a horse with a broken ankle have to be immediately euthanized? Regardless whether it ever was able to race again.

Can't these animals live there lives out on some farm in peace?

[seeline]

With the quality of medicine today, why would a horse with a broken ankle have to be immediately euthanized? Regardless whether it ever was able to race again.

Can't these animals live there lives out on some farm in peace?

Unfortunately, veterinary medicine isn't there yet (meaning that it's just about impossible to treat those kinds of breaks at this point in time).

The other side of it is that the racing industry in the US is pretty brutal.

Edited May 3, 2008 by seeline

[seeline]

This article (on racing in Europe vs. the US) has a lot of good info. about the way in which racehorses are treated... The US comes out as being very inhumane.

here's an excerpt -

American racing has followed American culture, with an emphasis on short, exciting bursts of speed. In Europe, where organized racing began, tradition takes precedence, with a focus on longer races over rolling turf courses. In the United States, racing has evolved into a statistician’s paradise, dense with timed workouts, speed ratings and dosage figures. On the gallops in France or England, I have yet to see a stopwatch.

That drive for speed has come with some baggage. The rate of fatal accidents on racetracks in the United States is about 1.5 per 1,000 starts, according to David Nunamaker, professor of orthopedic surgery at the University of Pennsylvania’s New Bolton Center, where Barbaro was treated. That may not sound alarming, but consider it this way: Last season at Arlington Park outside of Chicago, 21 horses died on the racetrack over three and a half months. In California, Del Mar’s summer season was marred by 16 fatalities. By contrast, in Hong Kong, fatalities are 0.58 per 1,000 starts — which translates into the deaths of 26 horses over the last five years. In England, the rate is 0.65 per 1,000 starts.

Edited May 4, 2008 by seeline

[papsrus]

Horses are raced too young in the United States, they are bred for speed not stamina, and drugs are used to further juice up the animals to the point where this sort of thing is all but guaranteed to happen in a certain percentage of cases. ... The thoroughbred industry needs to take a long look in the mirror.

In an ESPN snap poll today, 75 percent of the respondents said breakdowns are an acceptable part of the sport. Just 25 percent said the industry needs to react to the situation. Sad.

[seeline]

Yes, they're raced way too young, and too many owners could care less about possible injuries (like hairline cracks in bones) to make pulling a horse out of a race a real concern. Dosing horses with Lasix and other drugs so that they'll run injured (because they'll have less pain) is... well, I truly think it's evil.

In fact, the whole "sport" as practiced here leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. I used to ride, and Eight Belles' totally unnecessary death (i.e., she should never have been entered in the Derby and/or should have been scratched prior to the race) has hit nerves that I didn't realize I had...

Not just one ankle, but both ankles snapping - it's sickening.

Seriously, I need to quit reading this thread. If Eight Belles' accident had been a fluke, or incredibly unusual, it would be one thing. But it's not... am beginning to think that there must be people who actually enjoy watching these kinds of bust-ups (as with many spectators at car races).

Edited May 5, 2008 by seeline

[Chuck Nessa]

All of this is "tragic" but why be concerned by this "above" humans killing humans all over the world.

We (the US) are a major part of this, but we are not alone.

I fear a story of one dead horse obliterates stories of hundreds of human deaths elsewhere.

[Dan Gould]

Yes, they're raced way too young, and too many owners could care less about possible injuries (like hairline cracks in bones) to make pulling a horse out of a race a real concern. Dosing horses with Lasix and other drugs so that they'll run injured (because they'll have less pain) is... well, I truly think it's evil.

In fact, the whole "sport" as practiced here leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. I used to ride, and Eight Belles' totally unnecessary death (i.e., she should never have been entered in the Derby and/or should have been scratched prior to the race) has hit nerves that I didn't realize I had...

Not just one ankle, but both ankles snapping - it's sickening.

Seriously, I need to quit reading this thread. If Eight Belles' accident had been a fluke, or incredibly unusual, it would be one thing. But it's not... am beginning to think that there must be people who actually enjoy watching these kinds of bust-ups (as with many spectators at car races).

You know far more about horse racing in the U.S. than I do, but what I have read is this:

The track veterinarian said he had never, ever seen such a breakdown so far after the finish line. If that isn't the very definition of "fluke" and "incredibly unusual" I don't know what is. Its also been said that synthetic surface would have made no difference, due to the steady reduction of force while the horse 'gallops out.'

I have no idea why you think she should have been scratched prior to the race, as I have heard of no adverse medical report about her fitness to run. If you're saying that fillies shouldn't be allowed to race against colts, then fine, but its not like they've never competed, or won, before, even if it is a rare event.

Finally, isn't it in fact not surprising that after one ankle snapped, the other gave way due to the added stress? Yes its sickening but that is what happens when these animals break down.

(Just to be clear, I bolded your comments about whether the injury was fluky or incredibly unusual)

Edited May 6, 2008 by Dan Gould

[papsrus]

All of this is "tragic" but why be concerned by this "above" humans killing humans all over the world.

We (the US) are a major part of this, but we are not alone.

I fear a story of one dead horse obliterates stories of hundreds of human deaths elsewhere.

I don't see concern for this "above" concern for humans killing humans. I think the thing that makes us feel responsible in some way is that we are responsible in some way. ... I heard some people compare horse racing to auto racing. Drivers have been killed in auto races, afterall. Why should we get upset when it happens to a horse? For me, the reason is clear. Drivers make the choice to take the risk. Horses don't. We make that choice for them.

The rate of breakdowns in the U.S. is much higher than elsewhere in the world -- something like 1.5 per 1,000 racing starts in the U.S. compared to about 0.5 per 1,000 in Great Britain, for example. Conventional wisdom seems to be that this is partly because the horses here are raced at a much younger age than elsewhere, but other factors likely come into play as well, such as breeding for speed over stamina, an obsession with improving performance by any and all means, etc. These factors would seem to shift the burden to the owners and trainers to demonstrate that the horse was ready to race and was suffering no pre-race injuries or conditions. Based on the result here, it seems at least possible that this horse wasn't ready. The results of the necropsy should tell us more.

It's true that there are innocent human victims of violence, but that's a separate issue. And again, animals do not have free choice in the matter. These horses are forced to race.

Bottom line for me is this: We seem to be reaching a limit with these animals. Perhaps the thoroughbred industry should examine its thinking on breeding, racing age and its management of the overall health of these animals.

Edited May 6, 2008 by papsrus

[seeline]

Yes, they're raced way too young, and too many owners could care less about possible injuries (like hairline cracks in bones) to make pulling a horse out of a race a real concern. Dosing horses with Lasix and other drugs so that they'll run injured (because they'll have less pain) is... well, I truly think it's evil.

In fact, the whole "sport" as practiced here leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. I used to ride, and Eight Belles' totally unnecessary death (i.e., she should never have been entered in the Derby and/or should have been scratched prior to the race) has hit nerves that I didn't realize I had...

Not just one ankle, but both ankles snapping - it's sickening.

Seriously, I need to quit reading this thread. If Eight Belles' accident had been a fluke, or incredibly unusual, it would be one thing. But it's not... am beginning to think that there must be people who actually enjoy watching these kinds of bust-ups (as with many spectators at car races).

You know far more about horse racing in the U.S. than I do, but what I have read is this:

The track veterinarian said he had never, ever seen such a breakdown so far after the finish line. If that isn't the very definition of "fluke" and "incredibly unusual" I don't know what is. Its also been said that synthetic surface would have made no difference, due to the steady reduction of force while the horse 'gallops out.'

I have no idea why you think she should have been scratched prior to the race, as I have heard of no adverse medical report about her fitness to run. If you're saying that fillies shouldn't be allowed to race against colts, then fine, but its not like they've never competed, or won, before, even if it is a rare event.

Finally, isn't it in fact not surprising that after one ankle snapped, the other gave way due to the added stress? Yes its sickening but that is what happens when these animals break down.

(Just to be clear, I bolded your comments about whether the injury was fluky or incredibly unusual)

You seem to be citing an NYT article that also says this:

John Ward, a third-generation horseman who trained the 2001 Derby winner, Monarchos, says the industry must continue working on technologies that can screen horses more closely before they go into competition.

He told a story of a 3-year-old filly who was promising as a 2-year-old but had not seemed to be her best. An early set of X-rays did not show any injuries. When Ward sent her to the Rood & Riddle Equine Hospital for more sophisticated full-body tests, veterinarians found she had microfractures in three of her ankles.

“She was a catastrophe waiting to happen, and she had never spent an unsound day in her life,” Ward said. “We have got to start examining these animals at the molecular level, and protect them.”

The rest is here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/05/sports/o...amp;oref=slogin

Like I said above, I used to ride. Horses suffering from injuries are regularly scratched from horse shows, three day event competitions, barrel racing, rodeos, etc. It should be the same in flat racing, if the people involved want to even think about giving a sporting chance to the animals whose lives and welfare are in their control.

There's a *lot* more regarding cruelty and welfare issues that I'm purposely not raising so as not to derail the thread. Perhaps knowing that many racehorses end up as "throwaway animals" is a hint, though.

As papsrus said, the horses aren't the ones making the choices. It's up to the humans involved to see to the welfare of the animals, including fitness to do anything in competition of any kind (not exclusive to racing).

In referring to the snapped ankles, I was thinking of the excruciating pain experienced by Eight Belles - from all accounts, she was writhing wildly after she went down. (i.e, her pain had to be doubly bad due to the fact that it was *both* legs.) TV people covering the event made a deliberate decision to not show that as part of the Derby broadcast.

I do believe that people who are kind to animals have a great capacity to act compassionately toward other human beings, while those who could care less, or are deliberately cruel.... well, you guys can finish the sentence, no?

Edited May 6, 2008 by seeline

[seeline]

A few more things -

- Our Thoroughbreds (today) are, in some respects, accidents waiting to happen, in terms of light bone structure alone.

- On Sat. evening, I saw a post parade photo of Eight Belles and my impression was that her forelegs looked incredibly spindly. I'm no expert on equine matters, let alone racing, but I couldn't help thinking that she should never have been entered. (but I hasten to add that that's a "lay" impression, not a vet's!)

- She probably was given anti-inflammatories (so she would run even if she was experiencing pain) - sadly, this is standard procedure in the US.

- Could ego have played a part here - the owners', maybe? (First filly entered in the Derby in I forget how many years.) I hate to say it, but probably yes.

So many people see racehorses as property/investments. You'd think that those folks would have some sympathy for the welfare of those "investments," but many don't.

_____

papsrus wrote

Bottom line for me is this: We seem to be reaching a limit with these animals. Perhaps the thoroughbred industry should examine its thinking on breeding, racing age and its management of the overall health of these animals.

My thought is that the limit was reached a long time ago, and people are still trying to avoid dealing with it. Maybe this awful accident will help propel things in a better direction, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Edited May 6, 2008 by seeline

[Jazzmoose]

- Our Thoroughbreds (today) are, in some respects, accidents waiting to happen, in terms of light bone structure alone.

-

Personally, I think that's the problem right there. I'm just not that fond of what's being done in animal breeding of any species. Too many problems are created in the "perfection" of the line.

[seeline]

- Our Thoroughbreds (today) are, in some respects, accidents waiting to happen, in terms of light bone structure alone.

-

Personally, I think that's the problem right there. I'm just not that fond of what's being done in animal breeding of any species. Too many problems are created in the "perfection" of the line.

Agreed completely, though the bigger picture re. the racing industry encompasses much more than poor breeding practices... Here's an MSNBC article on bad breeding and the track

.

Photo of Eight Belles (taken at a workout last week) -

Edited May 6, 2008 by seeline

[Parkertown]

What a magnificent animal...

And now she's dead?

Geez...

I'm so glad I didn't see it happen...

I'm feeling ya Seeline...

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

All of this is "tragic" but why be concerned by this "above" humans killing humans all over the world.

We (the US) are a major part of this, but we are not alone.

I fear a story of one dead horse obliterates stories of hundreds of human deaths elsewhere.

Yes - there are all sorts of deplorable things in the world. Most of them have some kind of defensible rationale behind them - even if one doesn't agree with the rationale. This is done for pleasure, which seems to put it in the same category as snuff movies.

MG

[seeline]

MG -

[RDK]

All of this is "tragic" but why be concerned by this "above" humans killing humans all over the world.

We (the US) are a major part of this, but we are not alone.

I fear a story of one dead horse obliterates stories of hundreds of human deaths elsewhere.

Yes - there are all sorts of deplorable things in the world. Most of them have some kind of defensible rationale behind them - even if one doesn't agree with the rationale. This is done for pleasure, which seems to put it in the same category as snuff movies.

MG

Oh come on. Despite the fact that "snuff films" are mostly the stuff of urban legend...

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/snuff.asp

...even if they were true, there's a big difference between the intentional killing of a living being (horse or human) and engaging in an activity that may result in an inadvertent death.

I'm not a fan of horse racing, but I won't let hyperbole cloud my judgement about it either.

[seeline]

All of this is "tragic" but why be concerned by this "above" humans killing humans all over the world.

We (the US) are a major part of this, but we are not alone.

I fear a story of one dead horse obliterates stories of hundreds of human deaths elsewhere.

Yes - there are all sorts of deplorable things in the world. Most of them have some kind of defensible rationale behind them - even if one doesn't agree with the rationale. This is done for pleasure, which seems to put it in the same category as snuff movies.

MG

Oh come on. Despite the fact that "snuff films" are mostly the stuff of urban legend...

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/snuff.asp

...even if they were true, there's a big difference between the intentional killing of a living being (horse or human) and engaging in an activity that may result in an inadvertent death.

I'm not a fan of horse racing, but I won't let hyperbole cloud my judgement about it either.

You might want to check out this New York Times article, then - written by someone who has racehorses but only runs them on European tracks: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinre...amp;oref=slogin

Edited May 6, 2008 by seeline

[papsrus]

And Sally Jenkins at the WashPost has a pretty even-handed column on the whole matter today.

Excerpts:

There is an impulse to assign blame for the breakdown of Eight Belles in the Kentucky Derby, to punish someone for her unbearable-to-watch collapse on two shattered ankles. Did 20-year-old jockey Gabriel Saez lash her to the finish line, ignoring a telltale sign that she was injured? Did trainer Larry Jones overuse her, or administer steroids to make her too large? Did owner Rick Porter act selfishly in entering the 3-year-old filly in the Derby, a race that perhaps was too much for her?

But individual fault-finding doesn't address the larger question of just what kind of "sport" horse racing is or intends to be going forward. The death of Eight Belles was good for this much: It has forced acknowledgment of several critical problems in American racing. The Triple Crown schedule is too arduous. Three-year-olds are too young for such intense racing. Trainers are using certain drugs that can mask injuries. Owners' buying habits have led to modern thoroughbreds being bred too frequently and too finely. And there is evidence that dirt tracks are more dangerous than synthetic surfaces.

The real lovers of horse racing tell the truth about it. One of the clearer voices in the last couple of days has been that of Churchill Downs track veterinarian Larry Bramlage, who treated Eight Belles and called the sudden severity of her collapse almost unprecedented in his experience. Bramlage has noted that owners want big, fast, early-maturing Derby horses at the expense of strength and longevity. Eight Belles is descended from a bloodline that produces good prodigies but may also be susceptible to foot and leg injuries.

"We are at a crisis state," Bramlage told the Wall Street Journal. "The soundness of the horses has completely gone out the window because we don't reward it anymore. Pretty soon we won't have animals that can go in more than one race."

He suggested one possible remedy: financial incentives for horses who display longevity, rather than just the ability to get to a Derby.

[seeline]

Excellent article - I hadn't read any of her work in a long time, and am very impressed with where she's coming from.

I also found her May 4th column, Is Horse Racing Breeding Itself to Death?

here's a quote or two -

Modern thoroughbreds are bred for extreme speed, maybe to the point of endangerment. Thoroughbreds are muscularly more powerful than ever, but their bone skeletons seem to be getting lighter and frail. A Kentucky Derby horse has to run a mile and a quarter on a dirt track around two turns by the age of 3. It is the horse equivalent of asking a college kid to play in the Super Bowl. A racehorse therefore has to be bred for many things at once: strength, speed, size and stamina, and it has to be fast maturing, as well.

Thoroughbred breeding is like trying to make four dials all stop on the same number. How to mate the right stallion to the right mare so as to produce a perfectly weighted, formed, balanced animal? Too often, the makeup of a horse isn't right. If it's fast, it's not strong enough, or if it's strong, it lacks stamina. Its chest is too big, or its legs are crooked.

Maybe the trouble starts when people try to take the gambling out of gambling. Breeders try to eliminate the unpredictable from the bloodlines -- the weak or the ordinary or the unknown. Maybe they are trying to breed too perfectly, down to the smallest technicality in pedigree. Pedigree is just another way to reduce the dauntingly long odds. As if you can beat luck with a checkbook. ...

Part of the trouble is the makeup of thoroughbreds themselves: They are creatures physically at war with their own nature. The heart and lungs are oversize knots of tissue placed in a massive chest, and huge amounts of blood course through legs that are dainty. Anyone who has spent time around a barn understands that horses love to run. They do it for fun. A few years ago, I stood in a field of yearlings in Ocala, Fla., and watched them tear around in circles like children in a playground.

They need to be given the bodies to accommodate their hearts.

[papsrus]

They need to be given the bodies to accommodate their hearts.

Poignant writer, Jenkins is.

[seeline]

They need to be given the bodies to accommodate their hearts.

Poignant writer, Jenkins is.

Yes. I hope that hits the people who need to see it the most.