Lester Bowie's Brass Fantasy

[AndrewHill]

I've always been curious about Bowie's Brass Fantasy work, but never got around to it. I have 'Twilight Dreams' on hold at Half Price but I can't seem to pull the trigger on it because I'm concerned about having too much brass. So, are Lester's BF albums any good? Penguin gave his BF albums so-so reviews, so I thought I'd come to the Organissimo community instead and seek opinions/recommendations here, which I trust more.

Thanks,

HG

[seeline]

My .02-worth:

Great band, but too jokey at times. You might want to look at some of their ECM releases, though - some good pieces by the likes of Steve Turre showed up on some of those albums. (Sorry, I'm blanking on titles right now!)

I spent a fair amount of $$ buying BF Japanese import discs back in the 90s and on the whole, wish I hadn't. But Steve Turre's small esemble dates for DIW (with Lester Bowie) are very nice.

[sidewinder]

I saw them live on one occasion and it was fantastic - a memorable evening (Bath Fest 1988, broadcast back in the day on BBC TV). I've always felt that the recordings never really did the band justice - although I like the two ECM albums 'Avant Pop' and 'I Only Have Eyes For You'.

The concert I saw was, sadly, the one and only time I saw the late Philip Wilson.

Edited September 9, 2008 by sidewinder

[Hot Ptah]

"Avant Pop" and "The Fire THIS Time" are my favorite albums by Lester Bowie's Brass Fantasy.

I saw them live once. They were great.

[seeline]

I wish i'd been able to hear them live - the humor must have worked so much better onstage than it does in their studio recordings.

[AndrewHill]

I wish i'd been able to hear them live - the humor must have worked so much better onstage than it does in their studio recordings.

What do you mean by humor?

[robviti]

this is one of my favorite brass fantasy discs. there are used copies online for under $7:

[Chuck Nessa]

I would start with I Only Have Eyes For You and move on if it interests you. I think it will.

[Hot Ptah]

"The Fire THIS Time" has their rousing Jimmy Lunceford song, which was a great highlight in concert.

[seeline]

I wish i'd been able to hear them live - the humor must have worked so much better onstage than it does in their studio recordings.

What do you mean by humor?

Their covers of pop songs (like "The Great Pretender" and "Da Butt") were meant to be funny, but somehow I think that worked better live.

* They even covered the Howdy Doody theme song! Edited to add: well, OK, I'm misremembering - this is on an ECM that's credited to Lester Bowie only, but I bet BF did it, too.

Edited September 10, 2008 by seeline

[Chuck Nessa]

I don't believe Lester meant his r&b covers to be "funny". He loved that stuff and it was a big part of him.

[seeline]

Although I never met Lester Bowie, it seems to me that there is a lot of tongue-in-cheek humor in BF and in his small-group dates as a leader. am not convinced that having a sense of humor about something and loving it are mutually exclusive.

But maybe I'm prejudiced because I lived in the D.C. area when "Da Butt" was a huge local hit and was played constantly.

Edited to add: Maybe i took his album title too seriously?

Edited September 10, 2008 by seeline

[Chuck Nessa]

You might not have taken it seriously enough.

[seeline]

Or not, Chuck. I think he was having fun with those cover photos, with the album title, and with some of the material that's on it.

But then, I think I should have a blast when I'm playing music (as in, musical instruments). If playing becomes tedious over time, something's not working right. And if dance music isn't supposed to be fun, why play it?

Can you honestly say that Lester's version of "It's Howdy Doody Time" was meant to make listeners feel as sober as the proverbial judge? I really doubt it!

Edited to add: I wasn't talking about parodies, except for (maybe) "It's Howdy Doody Time." Brass Fantasy reminds me of the "show bands" that a lot of black colleges have - it's fun music, fun staging, and the arrangements and playing are usually killin.'

Edited September 10, 2008 by seeline

[seeline]

I rest my case, with quote.

...Bowie frequently drew critical flak for the humor he injected into his work. Besides the squeaks, squawks, grunts and moans he was able to coax from his horn, he sported a flat-top haircut and Fu-Manchu goatee that tailed off into two points, and gave his compositions irreverent titles like "Miles Davis Meets Donald Duck." He completely rejected the idea that jazz had to be solemn and unsmiling. "Sometime in the '60s," Bowie explained to Paul A. Harris of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, "the humor got away from jazz. It got intellectual, and nobody could smile. And it wasn't just the humor that got away--the life was taken out. The whole life was taken out of the music. I think, because of that, we've lost a lot in the music. The music doesn't reach a lot of people for that reason. They think jazz is this very intellectual stuff, and you've got to know all about it to appreciate it."

(Link.)

[Chuck Nessa]

You said "jokey" and "funny". That was my objection. Lester was always up for humor, but he was dead serious about it and about music. I think you might have missed Lester's point and mine as well.

[seeline]

I think we're stuck on semantics at this point! I've certainly given you plenty of examples to back up what I've been saying, though I have to wonder how "serious" anyone could be about a Spice Girls cover, or - for that matter - the opening of BF's version of "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," or...

Suppose we shake on it?

Edited to add: I grew up listening to (and loving) a lot of R&B and soul. That's one of the reasons Brass Fantasy appeals to me. (And one of the reasons why I wish I had seen them live!) I will say though, that sometimes I like the concept better than the execution (studio vs. live).

As for being "serious about music," I am, too. Very. But there's such a thing as being too serious about it. (I think.) I see a lot of people arguing for the "seriousness" of jazz, in a way that seems to rob the process of music-making of joy and fun and - life. That's something I'm quite seriously against, but the only thing I can do about it is to make sure that my own stuff doesn't get too serious for its own good. (Which means that I need to beware of taking myself too seriously!) - Add: I'm nobody in particular, not recorded, etc. So maybe you could take this as thoughts of a "no-name," eh?

Edited September 10, 2008 by seeline

[JSngry]

I would start with I Only Have Eyes For You and move on if it interests you. I think it will.

The title track on that one is one of the true marvels of our time, I think.

And I say that as somebody who feels that The Flamingos' version is too, at least in terms of tempo and vocal phrasing and the rhythm of the sounds going into the reverb to never leave or return, and yeah, ok, maybe a lot of people don't listen to a record like that in that way, but I do. Not too many people work the mojo of reverb the way it can be worked.

I never met Lester Bowie, much less "knew" him other than his music, but damn, that cat felt like a kindred spirit to me, a brother on some other plane than the one on which our temporal self resides, and damn do I miss not having him around still making music.

[seeline]

I mentioned "Da Butt" before - here's the original video.

[AndrewHill]

I never met Lester Bowie, much less "knew" him other than his music, but damn, that cat felt like a kindred spirit to me, a brother on some other plane than the one on which our temporal self resides, and damn do I miss not having him around still making music.

I met Lester Bowie after a lecture he gave in my jazz class in '96; he even wore the white lab coat. Can't tell you much of what he said in those few minutes after class because I guess I was a little star-struck, but in that hour lecture, I was immediately impressed with how deep his knowledge was with not just jazz, but classical and other forms of music. He even played for us to illustrate some of his points. Definitely ranks as one of the coolest experiences.

PS: any thoughts about BF disc, Twilight Dreams?

[JohnS]

Twight Dreams, that's the one with 'Thriller'. It's only lp length but go for it you wont be disappointed.

Great band, but then Lester never let me down. Great live, great music and good fun at the same time.

[sidewinder]

Twight Dreams

On the 'Virgin Venture' label. For a brief pico-second when jazz was the latest big marketing/advertising thing over here. Didn't last..

[AndrewHill]

Twight Dreams

On the 'Virgin Venture' label. For a brief pico-second when jazz was the latest big marketing/advertising thing over here. Didn't last..

Right. Last Exit's Iron Path is the only other one on the Virgin Venture label that I can think of at the moment.

[danasgoodstuff]

i like Lester, i love the art ensemble; I've seen the art ensemble live 5-6 times (once magical, the rest interesting). Never saw BF and find their recordings enjoyable but a little disappointing. To me "I Only Have Eyes For You" doesn't add much to the Flamingos' brilliant rendition, it's just kind of there for people who don't appreciate vocal groups but who'd find an instrumental somehow more worthy...am I just not listening carefully enuff? I also find the pop/R&B covers somewhat condescending...and I have nothing against humor in music.

[seeline]

Never saw BF and find their recordings enjoyable but a little disappointing.

I hear you.

I also find the pop/R&B covers somewhat condescending...

I think you're right about this, though only some of the covers hit me that way. If anything, a lot of them strike me as too stiff, not wild and wooly enough.

Edited September 11, 2008 by seeline