Bessie Smith Question for Chris Albertson

[Teasing the Korean]

The only Bessie Smith I have is on LP, including the 1950s single LP volumes and the double albums from the 70s. I'm curious if different or improved sources were used for the CD masters, and if the sound is significantly different. Also, was any new music found during the CD era that wasn't represented on LP?

I realize this is a very broad question, and somewhat subjective. If there has been previous discussion about this that I've missed, feel free to redirect me to that link. Thanks.

Edited November 16, 2008 by Teasing the Korean

[Christiern]

When I put together the 5 double albums it took over 2 years,because my engineer, Larry Hiller, and I practically had to start from scratch—the 4 1950s reissues were seriously marred by the accepted remastering technique of that era (i.e. equalization and reverb, neither of which could be removed. We used what we could of pressings made from the metal parts, but most of the surviving metals were all but unusable due to years of neglect at the plant. So, we relied heavily on collectors and sometimes used parts of several discs to create one that was acceptable.

While I made sure that flat transfers of all the material were stored at Iron Mountain—knowing that there would be technical improvements in the near future, I am not sure that the CD producers took advantage of those tapes. I say this because some of the CDs are—at least imho—inferior to the LPs. I wrote the liner notes for the 5 Columbia/Sony CD sets, but, quite frankly, I think the Frog label's complete issue of Bessie (remastered by the late John R. T. Davis) is the best available today. The Frogs contain previously unissued alternate takes and I should add that I was quite aware of their existence, but decided against using them because the were practically identical to the issued masters.

Apropos additional material, the Columbia CD set's final volume (5) includes the soundtrack to Bessie's 1929 2-reeler, "St. Louis Blues," and a disc containing 70 minutes of my interviews with Ruby Walker, Bessie's niece and confidante.

[Teasing the Korean]

While I made sure that flat transfers of all the material were stored at Iron Mountain—knowing that there would be technical improvements in the near future, I am not sure that the CD producers took advantage of those tapes. I say this because some of the CDs are—at least imho—inferior to the LPs.

Thanks for the quick reply Chris. What sources do you think they used? I'm surprised that they would have had you write the liner notes, yet not take advantage of your knowledge and experience with regard to the tapes and mastering.

[AllenLowe]

from my own experience the LPs, as Chris is implying, are hit or miss - however, there are some great transfers on them as well as some lesser sources - I think Doug Pomeroy told me that Columbia had destroyed a lot of the Bessie masters. I also have a Japanese boxed set of the Bessie sides that I have not listened to in some time, so I can report back. The CDs, as Chris indicates also, are a mixed thing - some good, some bad. The JSP Davises is excellent - John R.T. was a great transfer engineer and, most importantly, he had 78s that were in mint shape - also, there is/was a European guy (who I've lost touch with) who had these strange old vinyl 78s that they produced in small numbers back then. There is a whole CD of Bessie material taken from these, and the sound is spectacular on them, best of all sources -

[Christiern]

Responding to post #3: I have wondered about that myself. I don't know where their source material came from, but I should ask, shouldn't I?

Response to Allen: Let me point out that Bessie masters were not targeted, there was general decay of all the 78 rpm masters due to simple neglect at the plant. During WWII, Columbia also donated a lot of metal parts to the war effort, these were seemingly chosen at random.

I don't know what these "strange old vinyl 78s" could have been, other than plain old test pressings.

Edited November 16, 2008 by Christiern

[J.A.W.]

Chris is right, the John R.T. Davies-mastered Frog CDs (DGF 40-47, scroll down) are sonically superior to the Columbia CDs.

[J.A.W.]

The JSP Davises is excellent - John R.T. was a great transfer engineer and, most importantly, he had 78s that were in mint shape

Frog released the John R.T. Davies-mastered Bessie Smith CDs, not JSP.

Edited November 16, 2008 by J.A.W.

[Big Beat Steve]

When I put together the 5 double albums it took over 2 years,because my engineer, Larry Hiller, and I practically had to start from scratch—the 4 1950s reissues were seriously marred by the accepted remastering technique of that era (i.e. equalization and reverb, neither of which could be removed. We used what we could of pressings made from the metal parts, but most of the surviving metals were all but unusable due to years of neglect at the plant. So, we relied heavily on collectors and sometimes used parts of several discs to create one that was acceptable.

While I made sure that flat transfers of all the material were stored at Iron Mountain—knowing that there would be technical improvements in the near future, I am not sure that the CD producers took advantage of those tapes. I say this because some of the CDs are—at least imho—inferior to the LPs.

Chris, may I just add another question regarding those 2-LP sets you did back in the 70s?

I have the material from those LPs on a 10-LP box set (CBS Special Products LSP 14100) which at the time was available in this box form only from the Zweitausendeins mail order service.

The overall presentation was slimmed down compared to the individual 2-LP sets but on the back of the box it says in small print: "Produced by John Hammond, Chris Albertson"

I therefore assume that what you said about mastering of the 2-LP sets also applies to this box set and that the same masters were used?

[Christiern]

It would almost have to be the same LPs, just packaged differently. Of course, John had no hand in the production, so, maybe.... Only kidding, his name was removed from subsequent releases, thanks to Clive Davis.

So, yes, what you have is almost certainly the same. The credit should include Larry Hiller—and that one is absolutely well deserved.

[AllenLowe]

I'll have to dig out the cds I have, Chris, but they were pressed on different material than regular 78s and so had better sound and less noise - I actually talked to John R.T. about them years ago, and he explained that they were apparently an English production, and there was, as I mentioned, one British collector who had a lot of them -

[jostber]

Here are a couple of links on John R. T. Davies:

http://www.jazzoracle.com/team/davies_bray.asp

http://www.vjm.biz/articles9.htm

[AllenLowe]

he was a great guy - when I was working on my jazz history he sent me a CDR of a cut I couldn't find - trasnferred it for me, would not accept a penny -

[blind-blake]

Although the Frog's sound better, the booklets that Chris did for the Columbia CD sets are great. If you really like Bessie Smith, you won't want to miss them.

[Christiern]

Thank you bb.

[Shrdlu]

It was amazing, and courageous, of you, Chris, to put out that set of double albums.

I always saddens me that America as a whole has so badly neglected the work of its original artists like Bessie and the jazz musicians. Your reissue, long before the days of Mosaic, is a tremendous achievement.

I guess there were some at Columbia who did not really favor such a project.

We have still to see a reissue of all the Columbia Basie, to match the Billie Holiday set.

[Big Beat Steve]

We have still to see a reissue of all the Columbia Basie, to match the Billie Holiday set.

But this HAS been done, at least on LP.

Cf. those six 2-LP sets in the CBS "Jazzotheque" series (produced by Henri Renaud) released in the 80s. My pressings are all by CBS Holland (bought some new here locally but Vol. 5 in France and Vol. 6 in the UK so it must have been distributed widely).

And there there also were two 10-LP box sets that alos included alternate takes of the same material.

Has all this been totally unavailable in the USA?

Edited November 27, 2008 by Big Beat Steve

[AllenLowe]

I have one of those Bessie boxed sets -

[Big Beat Steve]

Bessie or BASIE (which was what Shrdlu had asked about) ?

[Christiern]

I guess there were some at Columbia who did not really favor such a project.

It took two years of pestering to get the Columbia go-ahead and I also had to do a lot of convincing (with John Hammond's help) to get mono approval—the powers at Columbia were certain that phony stereo was called for. They were proven wrong, the albums sold beyond any expectations.

Thanks for the good words.

[jostber]

I guess there were some at Columbia who did not really favor such a project.

It took two years of pestering to get the Columbia go-ahead and I also had to do a lot of convincing (with John Hammond's help) to get mono approval—the powers at Columbia were certain that phony stereo was called for. They were proven wrong, the albums sold beyond any expectations.

Thanks for the good words.

I have loved those Columbia LP's for years, wonderful releases.