Hot Stove League Thread

[PHILLYQ]

If the Bosox make the Manny/A-Rod deal(I would if I'm Theo Epstein), they rid themselves of a guy who is a great hitter but nothing else, and someone who may have ticked off a lot of other players on the team. In return, the Bosox get a guy who can hit as well as Manny, but who has a superlative gloveand some clue when running the bases, for a cost of about $5 mil a year and three additional years. I hope they don't make that deal because I'm a Yankee fan and this deal would make the Bosox better. But whither Nomar? Do they try to move him to second? Do they try to swing a deal? Any deal would be difficult because Nomar is only signed up for next season.

[Dan Gould]

David, the last thing you said.

Considering that the Sox are on the hook to Manny for huge bucks, why not upgrade and get a "good citizen" and intelligent ballplayer if you're going to pay huge dollars either way? And BTW, Nomar has been rumored to be on the way out for a while. Getting A-Rod would hasten the inevitable, in my opinion. And much as I love the guy, I'd love to see someone who doesn't always fly out when there's runners on the corner and two outs and he hacks at the first pitch, every single damn time.

The fact is, the Red Sox will have to field a different team this year or certainly in 2005, with Pedro, Nomar, Varitek, Lowe and Nixon all up for free agency. Signing Pedro or Nomar may mean no money for the lesser of those three (but almost equally important players, IMO) so maybe its time to make a big move.

One thing you can be sure of, Yankee fans ... this team and its ownership will be like the Terminator-always moving forward, always trying to beat you guys. They are obsessed, you're right about that, but I for one am glad. And with the Yankees in inevitable transition, I kind of likes our chances, sooner or later.

Philly,

Good analysis of Manny/A-Rod. Nomar goes home to California if it happens. Don't forget that a trade, if its worthwhile to both teams, has to include a chance for Nomar to sign long-term, should he want to.

Edited November 25, 2003 by Dan Gould

[catesta]

I understand your suspicions, but until his fluke injury this year, Schilling has been every bit a horse for quite a few years. I frankly don't see any reason why he couldn't sustain the performance that Clemens showed up to 40.

Intersting, isn't it, that the D-Backs wanted Soriano and JOhnson but are accepting far less from the Sox? I bet its fallout from the whole David Wells fiasco of two years ago-playing real hard ball with the Yanks.

Schilling still has plenty left in him.

I will be sorry to see him go.

As far as the taking less for him, it's true, but it's no secret the D-Backs will be sending a couple of those guys to Milwaukee in a deal for Richie Sexson.

I can't say how the season would have ended up if both Johnson and Schilling were healthy, better I'm sure, but the bats still sucked. If Schilling is dealt Sexson is a must.

[chris olivarez]

The Cubs helped themselves they obtained Derek Lee from the Marlins for next to nothing.

[Dan Gould]

YES! Hop Scotch Suey hasn't proven himself a major leaguer, especially after that horrific collision, so trading one-for-one for Lee is awesome for the Cubbies. I think you'll see Lee hit a lot of homers in Wrigley, his defense is excellent, and for a tall guy, he motors around the bases awfully well.

Edited November 26, 2003 by Dan Gould

[ghost of miles]

I'm a Yankee fan, and I'm glad that he won't be a Yankee. Steinbrenner was about ready to give up Soriano, Nick Johnson and a Steinbrenner grandchild to be named later for Schilling.

Amen. Remember the near-Sosa trade a couple seasons back? That one had me sweating bullets...

[Dave James]

Dan,

I agree with everything you're saying. I think until the Sox actually beat the Yanks, they'll do just about anything. There can be no doubt that adding A-Rod and giving up Manny (a guy they already ran through waivers) is a giant step in the right direction. Bringing in perhaps the best all-around player in baseball and a good citizen to boot and giving up a clubhouse lawyer who just happens to hit well can only make things immensely better both on and off the field in Beantown. They do need to move quickly though, cuz when 2005 rolls around and all these guys contracts are up, something has to give. Theo has to know he's on a short leash. This has to happen quickly, or it won't happen at all. Still, I'd peg the chances of Alex winding up in Boston at no more than 20%.

Up over and out.

[Dan Gould]

And now Schilling and the Sox have asked for and received an extra, extra 24 hours for Schilling to decide. How strange. In one way, you would think this is a good sign-probably, they're just hammering out details and they're so close that they just need a bit more time. OR, Schilling is just having a hard time making a decision and asked for more time. If its the former, I think we've got him. If its the latter ....

[BERIGAN]

Schilling will waive no-trade clause

After three days of negotiations, the Red Sox and Curt Schilling have agreed to a deal on a two-year contract extension. Sources with knowledge of the negotiations say the deal will be announced later Friday night.

Schilling

Schilling will then waive his no-trade clause and approve the four-for-one trade that the Red Sox and Diamondbacks agreed to Monday.

Schilling is signed for the 2004 season for $12 million. It's expected that his extension will be for two more guaranteed years -- $12.5M in 2005 and $13M in 2006 -- with a vesting option for $13 million that will guarantee a third season in 2007 if he stays healthy.

In 2004-2006, Schilling will earn $37.5 million, ESPN.com's Peter Gammons reported late Friday. In the same period, New York Yankees starter Mike Mussina will earn $49.5 million.

Earlier Friday, the league had extended a 24-hour extension on the trade deadline for the two sides to reach an agreement, after the Red Sox made an appeal that they needed more time and the Diamondbacks agreed

The Red Sox sent a message to the Yankees in particular and to all of baseball that they are willing to do whatever it takes to win a world championship. In acquiring Curt Schilling, it hammers home the Red Sox's approach to this baseball offseason.

Schilling gives the Red Sox a bonafide ace to compliment Pedro Martinez and a pitcher who can matchup with any other in all of baseball. Schilling is a horse that not only wants the baseball, but he also wants to finish what he starts. Curt is a refreshing throwback to pre-1990 baseball.

From Schilling's perspective, he now joins a team that wants nothing less than to win the World Series. There will be no rebuilding in Boston. This is a team with an open checkbook, and an ownership that wants to make a statement.

Schilling realizes that he has a chance to get into baseball folklore if he leads the Red Sox to a World Championship. I believe that Curt considered this heavily being the student of the game that he is. Yes, the money he will receive for the compensation of his services is astounding. But winning erases all talk of salaries, particulaly if the Red Sox do win that elusive championship.

A spokeswoman for the Diamondbacks declined to say why the deadline was extended.

Schilling was tentatively traded to the Red Sox on Monday, but the two sides finally came to an agreement late Friday just after the deadline.

In a letter posted on the Red Sox Web site early Friday morning, before the trade deal was struck, Schilling said he didn't know if the negotiations will lead to an agreement.

Schilling said Monday that he wouldn't leave Arizona without an extension to the contract that will pay him at least $12 million in 2004.

"I want a chance to win the World Series for the rest of my career. Who doesn't?" Schilling said at the time. "But I'm in a position to kind of control that."

In the days before the deal was struck, a Red Sox delegation met with Schilling and his wife Shonda in Arizona at the Schilling's home. General manager Theo Epstein had Thanksgiving dinner with the Schillings as talks continued.

Schilling, a former Philadelphia Phillies ace, had expressed a desire to get back to the more intense, East Coast style of baseball. And while he has also spoken fondly of his time in Arizona, Schilling is also aware that the Diamondbacks want to trim their payroll from about $94 million to about $80 million...

MORE....FROM TOM "COTTON" CANDIOTTI....

The Red Sox sent a message to the Yankees in particular and to all of baseball that they are willing to do whatever it takes to win a world championship. In acquiring Curt Schilling, it hammers home the Red Sox's approach to this baseball offseason.

Schilling gives the Red Sox a bonafide ace to compliment Pedro Martinez and a pitcher who can matchup with any other in all of baseball. Schilling is a horse that not only wants the baseball, but he also wants to finish what he starts. Curt is a refreshing throwback to pre-1990 baseball.

From Schilling's perspective, he now joins a team that wants nothing less than to win the World Series. There will be no rebuilding in Boston. This is a team with an open checkbook, and an ownership that wants to make a statement.

Schilling realizes that he has a chance to get into baseball folklore if he leads the Red Sox to a World Championship. I believe that Curt considered this heavily being the student of the game that he is. Yes, the money he will receive for the compensation of his services is astounding. But winning erases all talk of salaries, particulaly if the Red Sox do win that elusive championship.

Boston should be jumping with joy as the news of this trade hits the airwaves. Let's see how the Yankees react. This offseason is just starting, and it looks like it's going to be a fun one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1673290

Edited November 29, 2003 by BERIGAN

[Dan Gould]

Hallleh-FREAKIN=Lujah!!!

[Brad]

Looks like Dan got an early Christmas present . There were a couple of articles in today's NYT sports section about the move. One was about fan reaction. Apparently, Schilling went on a couple of fan web sites and some Yankee fans were trying to get him to come over to theirs. The second, in discussing Epstein's moves, quotes Schilling as saying that "I guess I hate the Yankees now", or something like that.

[catesta]

Brewers trade Sexson

December 2, 2003

The Arizona Diamondbacks acquired slugger Richie Sexson from Milwaukee in a nine-player deal Monday that sent infielder Craig Counsell and second baseman Junior Spivey to the Brewers.

First baseman Lyle Overbay, catcher Chad Moeller and left-handers Jorge De La Rosa and Chris Capuano also were dealt to Milwaukee.

In addition to Sexson, Arizona received left-hander Shane Nance and a player to be named.

Sexson had 45 home runs and 124 RBIs last season. Arizona had no player with more than 26 home runs last season. He has a .273 average with 191 home runs in six major league seasons with Cleveland and Milwaukee.

Sexson, 28, earns $8.6 million next year, the final season of his contract. He was the Brewers' most popular player, but with the franchise looking to cut its already meager payroll to about $30 million next season, his salary was too high.

[catesta]

I'll miss seeing Schilling in a D-Backs uniform, but I'm glad to see the deal was made for Sexson.

[vajerzy]

I got tired of seeing and hearing Schilling in Philly.......he's self-serving, and narcissic.....a Barry Bonds lite. "Gee, I really like it hear in Philly but I want to play for a winner".......and then last year and this year "I'd like to go back to Philly or the Yankees"......I thought he didn't want to go to the Sox??

MeMeMeMeMeMeMe.........

That said- he's a hellava pitcher and he can beat the Yankees and he will lead the Red Sox to a World Series championship in the next few years. Just make sure he pitches as a number 1 and Pedro as a number 2.

[Soulstation1]

in my books

d-cakes gave up too much for sexton and got too little for schilling.

[Dan Gould]

Hey GoM (and all you other Yankee fans), here's a column from ESPN.com with scary implications for the future:

Tuesday, December 2, 2003

THE OLD BOSS IS BACK

By Buster Olney

ESPN The Magazine

The Yankees are George Steinbrenner's team, more than at any time since 1990. The Boss negotiated Gary Sheffield's contract personally last week, meeting the slugger in Tampa, Fla. and allowing him to choose from three proposals.

And in the last year, Steinbrenner was the driving force behind the deals for third baseman Aaron Boone and pitchers Chris Hammond and Jose Contreras. He wanted outfielder Raul Mondesi in 2002, and he got him.

George Steinbrenner is pulling nearly all the strings this offseason for the Yankees.

There was a time when Steinbrenner deferred to his underlings. Gene Michael, the Yankees' general manager for five seasons, and Brian Cashman, who took over as GM in 1998, fought to keep Steinbrenner tethered to a measured course of management. They wanted to develop good and cheap, young talent, they looked for players who fit New York, and they stood their ground. Steinbrenner usually backed off. Because of that, Bernie Williams was not traded in 1994, Andy Pettitte in 1999 and Alfonso Soriano in 2000.

Steinbrenner occasionally stepped in and pushed through a smaller move, such as the signing of Dwight Gooden in 2000. But by and large, the professionals rebuilt and refined the team, the Yankees won four championships in five seasons from 1996-2000 and began making the playoffs every year, after failing to advance to the postseason for 14 years. After losing the 1981 World Series, they had stayed home in October until 1995.

But the Yankees lost the 2001 World Series to Arizona and Steinbrenner determined that his executives could not be trusted. He met David Wells for lunch and signed the left-handed pitcher to a two-year contract, a deal that worked out for the Yankees. Others have not. Slowly, Steinbrenner's vision for a championship team has begun taking shape.

Sheffield will get a three-year deal and it's possible that within that time frame, he will be one of four excellent candidates to be the Yankees' designated hitter. He's 35 years old, adequate defensively. First baseman Jason Giambi is almost 32 and moves like somebody 10 years older: he has a damaged knee mostly unaided by recent surgery, and is so immobile that he couldn't start Game 5 of the World Series.

There is talk that Williams, also 35, might have to move out of center field because of shoulder and knee trouble; he could shift to DH if the Yankees sign Kenny Lofton. But then, where would Giambi play if he can't play first base? Or catcher Jorge Posada, who might begin feeling the effects of a heavy workload in the next couple of seasons? Or Sheffield, if age or injury overcome him?

Steinbrenner apparently was unconcerned about Sheffield's history of unhappiness and intermittent effort. Sheffield does have great stats, something that many of the championship Yankees did not have.

The Yankees are paying about $10 million for third basemen next season, the combined salaries of Boone and Drew Henson, and Boone is a free-swinger who was almost completely overmatched in the postseason, save for one Tim Wakefield knuckler.

Gary Sheffield will be the first big free-agent signing for the Yankees this offseason.

The Yankees signed one right-handed set-up man -- 36-year-old Tom Gordon. They are also close to signing another righty reliever -- 35-year-old Paul Quantrill. That's because the army of middle relievers the Yankees have tried in the latest Steinbrenner era have either been hit with injury or been ineffective. If you project Contreras for the bullpen -- the role in which he served during the postseason, then the Yankees will have about $25 million in middle relief, or about $5 million less than the Brewers will pay their entire team.

But Contreras is probably headed to the starting rotation, once the pride of the Yankees. There's Mike Mussina and probably Pettitte, once he reconsiders his flirtation with Houston, and maybe Contreras and maybe Jon Lieber and perhaps Jeff Weaver and even Wells (if he re-signs).

There are question marks and Steinbrenner doesn't like question marks, and so the Yankees owner may throw another $40 million at talented Bartolo Colon, whose weight problem remains a question. Steinbrenner might negotiate that deal himself, as well. They need a young, cheap starter. Too bad that Brandon Claussen, left-handed and a hard-thrower and graced with a maturity that greatly impressed the Yankees' coaching staff, went to Cincinnati for Boone.

It all seems familiar. From 1976-1981 -- a period of six years -- the Yankees had dominant pitching, with Sparky Lyle and Ron Guidry and Goose Gossage and Catfish Hunter, won two World Series and played in two others and made the playoffs every year but one. Steinbrenner asserted even greater control, lured free agents, stripped the farm system. By 1983 the Yankees had a lineup of Roy Smalleys and Steve Kemps, aging hitters who had seen their best years, and by 1986 the Yankees' leading starter was Dennis Rasmussen, an 18-game winner; no other pitcher won 10 games.

Steinbrenner was running the show, and the Yankees' victory total declined. Ninety wins in 1986, then 89 victories, 85, 74, and 67. That's when Steinbrenner was suspended, and Michael became general manager.

But Steinbrenner's in charge now. More than ever.

*************************************

It's just like you said, Ghost.

[Dave James]

Hang onto your hat, Danno, the Yankees are starting to fire back. ESPN has just reported a trade involving the Expos that will bring Javier Vasquez to New York. Going West are the following young men: Nick Johnson, Juan Rivera, Randy Choate and the infamous player to be named later. The Yanks are also said to be pursuing Kevin Brown from the Dodgers in a trade involving Jeff Weaver and others. So, within the last 7-10 days, the Yanks have acquired Gary Sheffield, Tom Gordon, Paul Quantrill and the aformentioned Mr. Vasquez. Not bad.

I have this vision of Theo Epstein and George Steinbrenner playing a game of high stakes Battleship trying to the extent their collective pocketbooks will allow, to blow the other guy clean out of the water. This is insane...and fun. Don't know about you guys, but I can't wait until the Spring.

Up over and out.

Edited December 4, 2003 by Dave James

[Dan Gould]

If Vasquez turns out t handle New York better than Weaver, you've made a very good pickup.

But at what cost????

Nick Johnson is the greatest prospect to come out of the Yankee system in years and years and years. He has superstar written all over him, and not only have you tossed him away, you've set yourself up for atrocious infield defense from a guy who already needs knee surgery and its feared that it won't even help him that much.

I'm not happy you have Vasquez but I am thrilled you gave up Johnson.

As far as Weaver for Brown, well ... if that trade gets made than its time for baseball's own Warren Commission, because there is no way that a rich franchise like the Dodgers gives up a pitcher of that quality for Jeff Weaver. It would have to be a conspiracy ... involving the Cubans, the Mob, the CIA AND Marilyn Monroe.

[PHILLYQ]

Dan,

I agree with you there about Nick Johnson- I hate the idea of letting him go. What disturbs me is that Vasquez is not signed to an extension. Theoretically, he could pitch one year, then go free agent and stiff the Yankees(Of course Steinbrenner will throw buckets of $$$ at him).

The rumor in the NY Daily News today is that the Bosox are trying to trade Ramirez for A-Rod, and that the deal involves the Bosox absorbing a large chunk of Ramirez' $. Nomar then would be dealt for prospects, possibly to Anaheim. For Texas this creates a lot of payroll flexibility, as they no longer have the A-Rod contract and they get Ramirez on the cheap. It looks like Theo Epstein has been given permission to go completely for broke, as the Bosox payroll may start to approach Yankee proportions. If this all works out and the Bosox win the World Series, he'll be called St. Theo in Beantown, and the owner can then have a statue erected in his honor!

It is really great that both the Yankees & the Bosox are going at it so heavily in the offseason. I just wish we could find some good dirt on Steinbrenner, get him suspended again and let Gene Michael run the team- he did a great job during the last suspension...

[BERIGAN]

Well, the poor, poor braves need to cut payroll, to something like 70+ million, or what the Yankees will pay just their pitching staff! I really wish AOL would sell the team already, I know I predicted a .500 team last year, but unless they sign Vlad, this year is going to be pathetic. Oh, and I-Rod won't be with the Marlins this year! Where do guys think he will end up? I-Rod and A-Rod on the same team? No, that ain't gonna happen, is it... or is it????

from espn.....

ATLANTA -- Greg Maddux's long run with the Atlanta Braves is over.

As expected, the Braves didn't offer arbitration to the four-time Cy Young Award winner by the midnight Sunday deadline, essentially ending his career in Atlanta.

The Braves also cut ties with Gary Sheffield and Javy Lopez, two sluggers whose salary demands were beyond the range of the payroll-cutting team.

Julio Franco was the only Atlanta free agent to be offered arbitration. The Braves would like to bring back the 45-year-old first baseman to platoon with rookie Adam LaRoche next season.

Players not offered arbitration can't re-sign with their old clubs until May 1. Maddux went 16-11 with a 3.96 ERA last season -- his 16th straight year with at least 15 wins -- but likely will have to take a significant pay cut in 2004.

Last season, Maddux made $14.75 million on a one-year deal with the Braves after accepting arbitration.

The right-hander spent 11 seasons with the Braves, winning the NL Cy Young Award his first three years in Atlanta. He began a streak of four in a row with the Chicago Cubs in 1992.

Scott Boras, Maddux's agent, said Sunday there were no negotiations over the weekend with the Braves, who are expected to cut their payroll by at least $20 million this season.

Even without Maddux, the Braves have a solid start on their 2004 rotation with Russ Ortiz (21-7), Mike Hampton (14-8) and Horacio Ramirez (12-4).

But their offense is taking a major blow without Sheffield (.330, 39 homers, 132 RBIs), Lopez (.328, 43, 109) and third baseman Vinny Castilla (.277, 22, 76), all headed elsewhere.

Sheffield is close to agreement on a $39 million, three-year contract with the New York Yankees.

The Braves also declined arbitration for pitchers Kent Mercker, Darren Holmes, Shane Reynolds and Roberto Hernandez; first basemen Matt Franco; and outfielder Darren Bragg.

[Dave James]

If Boston does figure out a way to sign A-Rod (and apparently they have until the 19th of December to do so) I'm not sure what The Boss might do. Not sure there's much left out there player-wise that makes any sense, but he's been what you might call fairly reactionary of late, and this would require a reaction of Brodbinagian proportion. Maybe sign Vlad Guerrero just for spite? I'll tell you one thing, MLB used to consist of about 25% "haves" and 75% "have-nots". It's pretty clear now that we're down to just two "haves".

Up over and out.

[Dan Gould]

Oh, I think he'll fire his GM, just for not figuring out a way to stop A-Rod!

Then toss some furniture, throw 50 million at Pettite and 150 million at Vlad and ...

[BERIGAN]

Stop the presses!!!! The Braves have just made a major free agent signing!!!!!

Texas Rangers starter John Thompson!!!! I have never heard of him!!!! (ESPN must not ever show highlights of him , or televise games he started-I'm in a NL town) Lets see what espn says about him! Thomson, 30, is 42-63 with a 4.93 ERA in six seasons pitching for the Rockies, Mets and Rangers. Holy Crap!!!! Look out Yankees, we are gunning for you!

Edit...he pitched in the NL, and I still don't know him! I remember Jason Thompson though..

Edited December 9, 2003 by BERIGAN

[Dave James]

The signing of a John Thompson, while at the same time saying good-bye to Greg Maddox, Javy Lopez and Gary Sheffield only serves to remind one of the prickly path one walks when one merges one giant company with another. Anyone who thinks this isn't fallout from the marriage of Time Warner and AOL needs to start paying more attention. IMO, there's a very strong possibility that the Braves string of divisional championships will not be extended this year. Wait...hold on...I need a 20 second time out to wring the tears from my hanky over that one before can I continue. OK, I'm fine now. For sure, I don't think it would be much fun to be a Braves fan right now.

Up over and out.

[Dan Gould]

And now, Pettite is on his way home to Houston, and the Yanks are trying to nail down Kevin Brown ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1683732

Stunning. And while Brown can be a great pitcher, to count on someone who's been down so many times lately, I am shocked. He can certainly match Schilling when healthy, but Schilling has been a horse, aside from last year's freak injuries and Brown has been hurt over and over again.

Meanwhile, it leaves Posada, Jeter, Williams and Rivera as the only holdovers from the Championship run (who were there for all of them).

I think the Yanks are in big trouble, losing the player they called their "number one priority" and apparently, a lot of it had to do with the way they approached their "number one priority"-not even talking to him til the last day of the 15 day exclusive window to sign before free agency.