tonym Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 Just watched it this afternoon. Hmmm. The main storyline was fairly straightforward, but there were a few characters that puzzled me as to what/whom they represent. Any theories? How does it compare to Twin Peaks? The dialogue seemed very sparse but the aesthetics of the film (apart from the obviou) were gorgeous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 It's a great film, IMHO. But also, IMHO, not everything needs to represent something. Allow the images and juxtapositions to play in your subconscious. I think a David Lynch film can be deemed successful if it appears in your dreams. But if you would like a pretty good "explanation" of it, Salon had a long article with one interpretation which seemed pretty insightful. Go to Salon and do a search. It's been a while. Compared to "Twin Peaks?" Hmmmm. Well, it's similar in tone but different. Dialogue is not very important in Lynch films. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minew Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 Don't even get me (or any other fan of this film) started. The theories and interpretations are legion and all can easily be found on the web. Try looking it up at imdb.com to start. There's even a comedy short at one site about trying to understand the movie. The basic theory (and the one I subscribe to): The first segment of the movie focusing on Betty (Naomi Watts) and Rita (Laura Harring) is a fevered dream of the character Diane (also played by Watts) after she has had the lover who spurned her killed (Camilla, also played by Harring). Complicating the puzzle is the fact that the second segment, focusing on the "real" Diane, is a series of non-sequential flashbacks that can only be put in proper temporal order by studying props, costumes, etc. These peculiar devices serve to create in the viewer a sense of Diane's loss as well as the disorientation of dream memory. This is just the tip of the iceberg as there all sorts of things going on in this movie, e.g., the relationship is a metaphor for how Hollywood destroys people, especially women or e.g., the power of film/illusion and its makers to control our thoughts and feelings... Like I said, don't get me started. I recommend multiple viewings with a notebook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 I find that David Lynch's work is something to be experienced, not understood. Twin Peaks is my favorite television series ever. And if they don't get that second season out on DVD pretty damned soon, I'm gonna show 'em a thing or two about owls they haven't seen yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minew Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 One jazz footnote to this film: It features an appearance by the late Conti Candoli of Thundering Herd, Shelley Manne, and Tonight Show Band fame. He plays trumpet briefly in the theater scene. Must have been one of his last performances on screen or otherwise before his December 2001 death. I even think there's some meaning in his casting, BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 (edited) I found Mulholland Drive to be a much better organized Lost Highway, despite the fact that they started with footage for a television series and had to work from there. Either way, I felt like a had a firmer grasp of what was being represented at the end of Mulholland Drive than I did Lost Highway. Not to mention the fact that the industial rock music in Lost Highway couldn't have been more annoying. Ughh... Edited November 5, 2003 by Brandon Burke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 I thought it was an amazing movie. The Salon piece really helped to clarify much of my confusion. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 Whenever I think about Twin Peaks I can't help think about that episode of the Simpsons where Homer is watching it and there's the midget dancing with the unicorn under the moon and Homer says, "Brilliant!! Absolutely Brilliant!!!" <long pause> "I have no idea what's going on." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maren Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 The basic theory (and the one I subscribe to): The first segment of the movie focusing on Betty (Naomi Watts) and Rita (Laura Harring) is a fevered dream of the character Diane (also played by Watts) after she has had the lover who spurned her killed (Camilla, also played by Harring). Amazing movie. I only saw it once, "at the movies" with a friend, and never read any explications -- but above was pretty much how I interpreted it (don't remember thinking/realizing that Diane actually had Camilla killed, however -- but maybe that's just because it's been a while since I saw it): IMHO, once you get the drift of the second half, the whole first half looks like a revenge/triumph fantasy: Betty comes to Rita's rescue, gets to imagine "Rita" being hurt and threatened while remaining entirely innocent (I mean, BETTY??!!) -- gets all the starring roles she didn't get in real life, imagines the comeuppance of the director who Camilla left her for... About lots of other stuff -- the live burlesque/magic show, the scary guy near the trash bin in the parking lot outside the diner, the creepy little "parents" who are 2nd-half miniatures of that 1st-half airport couple -- I subscribe to Adam's philosopy:not everything needs to represent something. Allow the images and juxtapositions to play in your subconscious. I also must say that the scene where Diane is alone on the couch sobbing and trying to masturbate -- well (take a deep breath) -- is devastatingly emotionally honest -- a man (David Lynch) shows a beautiful woman in a sexual context on screen AND CONVEYS HER INTERNAL FEELINGS -- she's the subject, not the object -- it's an amazing accomplishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 I'm a big fan of his films, this is his masterpiece, quite beautiful. But my favorite is Wild At Heart, I wish it would come out on DVD. As well as that 2nd season of Twin Peaks. Google USENET for the David Lynch newsgroups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Well, never saw Mulholland Drive, and the recommendation that I take notes while watching it isn't exactly making me run out to rent it, but funny all the comments about Twin Peaks-the first season DVD is en route via NetFlix, and I am hoping it turns out as entertainingly weird as I remember it. One thing's for sure, though: Lara Flinn Boyle looked healthier then than she does now: Though this picture ain't bad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 (edited) I also must say that the scene where Diane is alone on the couch sobbing and trying to masturbate -- well (take a deep breath) -- is devastatingly emotionally honest -- a man (David Lynch) shows a beautiful woman in a sexual context on screen AND CONVEYS HER INTERNAL FEELINGS -- she's the subject, not the object -- it's an amazing accomplishment. That scene was the cause of much talk amongst film dorks and....well....everyone. Folks had a hard time with that one. My girlfriend (at the time) was shaken for several hours afterward. I think it's a testament to Watts. She pulled that off and, in my mind, retained her dignity as a legitimate actor/actress. Again, I assert my opinion that Mulholland Drive is a less messy Lost Highway. Also, I'm not sure that the above theories really even need be cast. Lynch admits himself that he is heavily inspired the logic of dreams. I'm not sure that there is a direct correlation between the two narratives apart from the fact that the entire film flows in a -- bear with me -- symetrical logic. It begins with the diner scene between the two guys, followed by a diner scene between the two women, then everything else and from there it works in reverse order; the wowen revisit the diner in reversed roles followed by the men in reversed roles. The grandparents function as the spectres of expectation. I see it as a much more vague and Pynchon-esque situation wherein there doesn't necessarily *need* to be a direct narrative. It's is far too abstract of a situation to assign a narrative that strict. As far as I'm concerned, one is supposed to walk away with the experience of a naive Midwestern girl experincing the seediness of Holywood. Period. The rest is just the Lynch M.O.[sic]. I mean, let's get down to the real issue: "there is no band"........ Great film. Edited November 6, 2003 by Brandon Burke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Well, never saw Mulholland Drive, and the recommendation that I take notes while watching it isn't exactly making me run out to rent it, but funny all the comments about Twin Peaks-the first season DVD is en route via NetFlix, and I am hoping it turns out as entertainingly weird as I remember it. It's great, Dan; I picked it up at Costco a few months back. Although the REALLY weird shit is in the second season. Nothing could be as weird as how badly Laura Flynn-Boyle has decayed in the looks department, though. Makes me glad my "crush of the show" was Sherilyn Fenn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minew Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 I mean, let's get down to the real issue: "there is no band"........ Great film. Yes, "it's all an illusion": Diane's illusion, Betty's illusions, Lynch's illusions, and ultimately ours. Where all of these begin, end, and overlap is an open question but I think the point is a reflection on who controls these illusions and why we are all so suceptible to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man with the Golden Arm Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 "mmmmmmmmmmmoooooose" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Well, never saw Mulholland Drive, and the recommendation that I take notes while watching it isn't exactly making me run out to rent it, but funny all the comments about Twin Peaks-the first season DVD is en route via NetFlix, and I am hoping it turns out as entertainingly weird as I remember it. It's great, Dan; I picked it up at Costco a few months back. Although the REALLY weird shit is in the second season. Nothing could be as weird as how badly Laura Flynn-Boyle has decayed in the looks department, though. Makes me glad my "crush of the show" was Sherilyn Fenn! I found a Twin Peaks website with a complete listing of cast members-I had no idea that David Duchovny was in this, and Heather Graham played a waitress at the diner with the damn fine cup o' joe and Alicia Witt, who played Cybil Shepherd's daughter on the sitcom was also on Twin Peaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Finally watched this film tonight for the first time. This thread is helping me to sort out what happened. In addition to having some fantasticly educated & experienced jazz fans who share their knowledge with the rest of us, we sure have some knowledgeable film buffs as well. I thought Mulholland Falls was fascinating, and well made. The "clues" that are listed on the DVD insert are making me want to go back and re-watch it right now though, LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Burke Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 I was not aware of the clues in the DVD insert but I've not seen it since it was in the theatre. Funny story: When Mulholland Drive was up for an Academy Award, my mother, who hosts an Oscar party every year and as such feels obliged to see everything that's up for a big award, said she wanted to see it. I remember my brother and I looking at each other as if to say, "Errrr...maybe not this one, Mom." (Understand that my folks' idea of a "weird" movie is Groundhog Day.) Even funnier was my father piping up during the same conversation saying, "I saw it." This was especially interesting since his idea of a good movie is something with Bruce Willis or Will Smith, car chases, and a lot of one-liners. Again, my brother and I looked across the dinner table at one another. "So what did you think?" I asked. "I thought it was good," he replied. To this day, I have no idea how he could have possibly liked this film. [side note: I dragged him to see Rushmore when that was still in the theatres. Something of a selfish act. I didn't think he'd like it but I felt like Max Fischer in high school and I wanted him to see what that was like. About 30 minutes into it he leaned over and said, "This is pretty f*cking weird".] To again state the obvious, I have no idea how he could have possibly enjoyed Mulholland Drive. I need to bring this up next time I talk to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonym Posted February 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 I was not aware of the clues in the DVD insert but I've not seen it since it was in the theatre. Funny story: When Mulholland Drive was up for an Academy Award, my mother, who hosts an Oscar party every year and as such feels obliged to see everything that's up for a big award, said she wanted to see it. I remember my brother and I looking at each other as if to say, "Errrr...maybe not this one, Mom." (Understand that my folks' idea of a "weird" movie is Groundhog Day.) Even funnier was my father piping up during the same conversation saying, "I saw it." This was especially interesting since his idea of a good movie is something with Bruce Willis or Will Smith, car chases, and a lot of one-liners. Again, my brother and I looked across the dinner table at one another. "So what did you think?" I asked. "I thought it was good," he replied. To this day, I have no idea how he could have possibly liked this film. [side note: I dragged him to see Rushmore when that was still in the theatres. Something of a selfish act. I didn't think he'd like it but I felt like Max Fischer in high school and I wanted him to see what that was like. About 30 minutes into it he leaned over and said, "This is pretty f*cking weird".] To again state the obvious, I have no idea how he could have possibly enjoyed Mulholland Drive. I need to bring this up next time I talk to him. I think maybe since your dad is only human after all, and probably has as much testosterone coarsing through his veins as he did years ago, that possibly explains his enjoyment of the film Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Everything you wanted to know about "Mulholland Drive" http://archive.salon.com/ent/movies/featur...drive_analysis/ All you have to do is dream Freudian analyst Dr. Frederick Lane cracks open "Mulholland Drive" and gets inside David Lynch's weird, weird head. http://dir.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/20...tml?sid=1055331 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 I'm a big fan of his films, this is his masterpiece, quite beautiful. But my favorite is Wild At Heart, I wish it would come out on DVD. UPDATE: Wild at Heart did come out on DVD 12/2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wheel Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 I've always found the Mr. Cranky review enlightening: Four words: hot naked lesbian sex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 I've always found the Mr. Cranky review enlightening: Four words: hot naked lesbian sex THAT'S BETTER THAN THE SALON MATERIAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 This is a fantastic film, and I agree that its Lynch's masterpiece. I didn't catch the twist (ie the first part being a dream and the second part being reality) until my third time watching it, but let me tell you that moment of discovery was a wonderful one! I've watched it probably 4 more times since then and its just gets better and better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minew Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 This is a fantastic film, and I agree that its Lynch's masterpiece. I didn't catch the twist (ie the first part being a dream and the second part being reality) until my third time watching it, but let me tell you that moment of discovery was a wonderful one! I've watched it probably 4 more times since then and its just gets better and better. I agree that this film can sustain you through more repeated viewings than just about any other. After a while, it functions like a drug. The only film I've watched near as many times was 'Repo Man', another film that has a lot of its meaning in its structure ('lattice of coincidence'). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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