LEE MORGAN BOOKS

[Guest youmustbe]

I got the 2 Lee books from library.

The new one by the kid McMillan or whatever his name is is a college term paper...pathetic.

The other one by the Brit Percahrd is good but over intellectualized. Also, it is easy to look back 50 years and claim that record label owners should have been 'generous. to musicians.

One of the many thing that made me laugh was his complaint that Lion did not pay for rehearsas but only for the rehearsal studio.

No one pays for fucking rehearsals! You pay for the studio. Rehearsals are part of the fee for the recording or gig.

I'm producing a gospel recording. What, I'm supposed to pay a 36 piece choir and 6 musicians to rehearse for a week above their recording fees?

Crap!

Like that old saying, 'Writing about music is like singing about architecture'...or some such thing.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

thats why u gotta dig the street like me and get some real info. like the guy i met the other week. he told the mobe was good on records, but on stage, it was usually a whole nother story. always messed on the shit, that was his recollection when i asked him what he thoght about mobley, just once guys thing he said be thats what it was....

[fasstrack]

I got the 2 Lee books from library.

The new one by the kid McMillan or whatever his name is is a college term paper...pathetic.

The other one by the Brit Percahrd is good but over intellectualized. Also, it is easy to look back 50 years and claim that record label owners should have been 'generous. to musicians.

One of the many thing that made me laugh was his complaint that Lion did not pay for rehearsas but only for the rehearsal studio.

No one pays for fucking rehearsals! You pay for the studio. Rehearsals are part of the fee for the recording or gig.

I'm producing a gospel recording. What, I'm supposed to pay a 36 piece choir and 6 musicians to rehearse for a week above their recording fees?

Crap!

Like that old saying, 'Writing about music is like singing about architecture'...or some such thing.

'dancing' about architecture---Frank Zappa

Whoa, dude, you're pretty pissed. Gee, by any chance are you in the music business?

I feel you........

[Alexander Hawkins]

No one pays for fucking rehearsals! You pay for the studio. Rehearsals are part of the fee for the recording or gig.

I'm producing a gospel recording. What, I'm supposed to pay a 36 piece choir and 6 musicians to rehearse for a week above their recording fees?

This totally depends. Yes, as you say, sometimes the rehearsal is understood as covered by part of the session fee. But I've been paid for plenty of rehearsals. I don't know how it was 'in the day', but to say that no-one pays is untrue, certainly nowadays. Perhaps depends on how scrupulous the producer is? Dunno.

BTW - I don't buy the 'writing/music - dancing/architecture' thing, at least insofar as it's meant as something of a dig against writing about music. It appeals in a tiny way to the small part of me that appreciates the occasional 'bon mot' - but otherwise, please! Several things: 1) let's not think too hard about things - I for one simply enjoy reading about music; 2) sure, it's difficult to capture many and various things in writing about music (as it is to capture various ideas about other things in music), but this isn't to say that writing e.g. can't send you to check out/appreciate music in more depth; 3) you can still appreciate the writing qua writing in any case - examples where this is the case for me personally - Larry Kart, John Szwed. And 4) - think about it from a practical point of view as a producer. From my point of view as a musician, certainly I need writers. Reviews etc. are what help people like us work, and it's conceited to think otherwise. No-one is more important than anyone else in the musical enterprise, really - most of us are all in the game of enjoying and trying to make it happen.

Anyhow, this is sort of off-topic...moving back on to the subject in hand...I have to hang my head slightly and say that I haven't read Tom Perchard's book. I've had the pleasure of meeting Tom on gigs, and don't doubt however that it's an excellent and perceptive book - he knows what he's talking about, and then some - seriously. And I can honestly say that I have heard some really heavy musicians lavish praise on the book.

Here is a link to Tom's site.

Edited April 13, 2009 by Alexander Hawkins

[Guest youmustbe]

Nothing wrong about writing reviews of performances...I'm talking about writing books about musicians and looking at them thru the prism of today's culture.

I was around Lee a lot. He was a total asshole. But then again he was one type of hustling junkie. There were the quiet ones like Mobley, who did look like shit on stage.

What annoyed me about the book was, and maybe I'm over sensitive, the implication that Lion somehow took advantage of the musicians by taking their publishing, not paying them to rehearse etc.

Maybe he did but maybe it was a different time that Perchard doesn't understand because he is young.

It's not unlike the way we want our parents to have been different, to have made life choices before we were born that we think would have turned our and their lives differently. They did what they did. Just like the jazz biz was what it was in the 50's, started to change in 60's and so on.

btw About the only book on musicians that I have read that is a good read, is Harlew Robinson's book on Prokofiev.

Almost all books on musicians, composers are flawed because they can't capture the obsession that they have toward their art. That's what I meant by writing about music.

And I managed Steps Ahead for years...never paid anyone to rehearse, never paid Ron Carter, Bob James, Gato Barbieri and on and on to rehearse for a record date...nor did they ask.

[umum_cypher]

The other one by the Brit Percahrd is good

That's going on the back of the next edition.

but over intellectualized.

That's going on the front.

It may have been the way that Benny Golson relayed the unpaid rehearsals part of the story - I may be remembering wrongly, but I think it was unbidden and rather pointed (is he as street your contacts, Chewy?). I'm not sure I would have included this if I were writing it now. But the larger point I was trying to make in that chapter was about the comparative informality of the jazz recording business at that time, certainly the Blue Note part of it. By 1956, Lee Morgan had played in pit bands. If he'd gone to NYC to get a Broadway gig, he would have been paid for the rehearsal, I think I'm right in saying. He'd played in symphony orchestras. If he'd gone to NYC to play for Bernstein he would have been paid for the rehearsal. But small label jazz was a labour of love for many concerned - and there was also an element of corners being cut on the musicians' behalf. There you are, that's it, nothing controversial.

People who haven't read the book, and a certain number remain, might think this sounds like a Kofsky-esque whitewash, but it's not, it's part of a bittersweet picture. As we all know, this was a small business subject to the whims of suppliers and distributers like any other, and the balance surely lays *very much* in the sweet part of the equation. But I also wanted to challenge (a little) the hagiographic approach that is usually taken towards BN (and which Ashley Khan may or may not take), and on this the withholding publishing issue stands - especially given the former label employee's testimony given on that point.

Re: Lee being an asshole, I don't know about McMillan's book, but you won't find much to counter that argument in mine. Even though I heard plenty of very positive stuff on the grapevine - particular sideman having their rent paid for them and such - people were reluctant to go on the record with the good stuff, which begs a number of questions. The ambivalence with which ex-colleagues recalled LM was striking. But so was the musical respect.

Like that old saying, 'Writing about music is like singing about architecture'...or some such thing.

Well, it's 'writing about music is like dancing about architecture', and, as Robert Christgau has written, it's bullshit - dancing is architecture!

Edited April 13, 2009 by umum_cypher

[Guest youmustbe]

Broadway, NY Phil are bound by 802 Union rules...contracts to pay for this and that....I've worked for NY Phil btw...There is no reason to pay for rehearsal for jazz record date or gig if you pay for the studio and total fee is agreed on. Some guys would try to hit me up for cab fare, but no luck. No need to pay for cartage since the studio has everything. At record dates I never paid for cartage, either. Food yes.

Jazz clubs were supposed to be part of the union, but they disregarded it as much as possible, what's new!

There is a reason why BN and others took the publishing. They didn't have the money to pay for it. They were coming out of 78 era, singles as it were.

As the biz changed and grew, of course, musicians got wiser and the rest is history. But you can't blame BN for not realizing that the record business would become huge and that the compact disc would make it even bigger.

[Guest youmustbe]

One other thing...If you adhere to the union, then you have to deduct taxes from the musicians' pay...How many jazz musicians back in the day would have agreed to that? Not only the deduction, but that it would open them up to filing income taxes?

So, yes, it seems the clubs were lowlifes, but there is more to it than that.

[fasstrack]

BTW - I don't buy the 'writing/music - dancing/architecture' thing, at least insofar as it's meant as something of a dig against writing about music. It appeals in a tiny way to the small part of me that appreciates the occasional 'bon mot' - but otherwise, please! Several things: 1) let's not think too hard about things - I for one simply enjoy reading about music; 2) sure, it's difficult to capture many and various things in writing about music (as it is to capture various ideas about other things in music), but this isn't to say that writing e.g. can't send you to check out/appreciate music in more depth; 3) you can still appreciate the writing qua writing in any case - examples where this is the case for me personally - Larry Kart, John Szwed. And 4) - think about it from a practical point of view as a producer. From my point of view as a musician, certainly I need writers. Reviews etc. are what help people like us work, and it's conceited to think otherwise. No-one is more important than anyone else in the musical enterprise, really - most of us are all in the game of enjoying and trying to make it happen.

Sure writers matter and can help. Many have helped a lot. But when they are wrong, and they are wrong often, they can really hurt. And as musicians we know what a brutal racket this is. I personally resent the fuck out of writers that turn on guys the minute they have a little financial success---usually after years of poverty and breaking their asses. Critics have slammed Wes Montgomery, Stan Getz, Dizzy, George Benson, Stanley Turrentine---the list is endless, and how fucking dare they? Walk a mile in my shoes, you know. They seem to hate, or at least resent, popularity, too, in musicians, which only rubs in their faces their own failure, since many wanted careers playing and couldn't hack it. This is far from the first time this has been said, I know, but that is only b/c it is true, and I can’t help that. I wish it weren’t, actually. The objectivity and quality of criticism would improve markedly without all these hidden beefs.

As far as the actual art and content of reviewing, I don't give many of these people high grades as holding or artful writers. Never cared for the shallow verbosity of Gary Giddins (he's better than most, actually), Nate Chinen (very weak writer generally), Howard Mandel (awful), many more. DownBeat is such an embarrassment I quit reading such claptrap years ago.

This is not personal toward any specific writer. Dan Morgenstern is a lovely man and friend to jazz. Giddins co-started a good and needed repertory band with Loren Schoenberg. Stanley Crouch is a friend (it's more like we're friendly) and himself unfairly slammed (though Stanley has a knack for finding controversy, to say the least). I thought Whitney Balliett was a good writer. I enjoyed reading him. Ralph Ellison wrote on jazz in an opinionated but poetic way, but didn't stay in the game long in pursuit of the inner novel, but at least he could write.

As far as helping us work: well, the late Ralph J. Gleason did a lot of good with his shows and columns. He was a great man in his way. Unfortunately that did little for workaday musicians like ourselves, though it gave a great forum for names in jazz that the public needed more exposure to. Personally, I was reviewed exactly once in my life, as a sideman with George Kelly by Lee Jeske in Cash Box. I got a rave, dubbed by Jeske 'the sparkplug of the rhythm section' and not only did it not get me gigs in any sense but it pissed me off b/c it was mad disrespectful to Richard Wyands, who was 10 times the musician., and the actual sparkplug. He never even mentioned Richard, and, believe me, every head in that band turned around for every solo he played. None turned for mine as there was no reason to. It showed lack of insight on Jeske's part not to hear how much more Richard was playing than me, though I appreciated the compliment. He also averred as how I played 'heartbeat steady rhythm guitar of the kind that old-timers say don't exist anymore'. Well, no cigar on that either, since 1. I was finally asked to play 4/4 the night before by George since, nervous as hell to be on the gig, I was overplaying like mad and cluttering things up. George saved my ass and paved the way for that review, little did Jeske know! 2. There was nothing heartbeat-steady about it. I had to work for years with a metronome b/c my hands---especially the right, strumming hand, since I'm a lefty---get tired and I tend to drag. So Jeske, while complimenting me, really didn't get it.

I bet if musicians were interviewed there would be many more stories like mine.

I also want to get something off my chest I've been carrying for years, while we're on the subject: My guitar teacher as a teen is still around. I'll leave his and his singer wife's name out of this, since they are very dear people to me. They are also wonderful performers and pros all the way. My old teacher is one of the finest accompanists I've heard on guitar---and I've heard them all. His time is ridiculous. But they opened for James Moody once and the Great Gary Giddins reviewed them. He said that she 'moved her head around like a maladjusted barbie doll' and mocked her 'you're a lovely audience' routines. And nothing else. I have never in my years heard anything as cruel as that dismissal of such quality people, and he shouldn't have gotten away with it. I remember writing to the Village Voice in outrage. Giddins went on to enthuse about and ass-kiss Moody, which is not to say Moody didn't deserve a rave or isn't a great player but this IMO is yet another example of guilty white liberal critics doing these type of genuflecting reviews. I've read so many and am so tired of it. It’s actually racist to overpraise, but they don’t view it that way.

OK. I relinquish the soapbox to whoever wants it. Just being honest and I think these things need to be said.

Edited April 14, 2009 by fasstrack

[fasstrack]

Broadway, NY Phil are bound by 802 Union rules...contracts to pay for this and that....I've worked for NY Phil btw...There is no reason to pay for rehearsal for jazz record date or gig if you pay for the studio and total fee is agreed on. Some guys would try to hit me up for cab fare, but no luck. No need to pay for cartage since the studio has everything. At record dates I never paid for cartage, either. Food yes.

Jazz clubs were supposed to be part of the union, but they disregarded it as much as possible, what's new!

There is a reason why BN and others took the publishing. They didn't have the money to pay for it. They were coming out of 78 era, singles as it were.

As the biz changed and grew, of course, musicians got wiser and the rest is history. But you can't blame BN for not realizing that the record business would become huge and that the compact disc would make it even bigger.

If you know as many musicians as you say---and no doubt you do---I would think you'd know the hell we catch merely surviving and paying basic bills. I would respecfully submit that our time is worth some small recompense. I've rehearsed with names and semi-names and never was offered a dime by artist or manager, but had to get there and pay carfare. These weren't record dates, BTW, but for gigs that didn't pay that great to begin with. Pros deserve to get, and appreciate getting, paid. I, a pauper, rehearse my band and at least cover carfare/scare up food/beer. If I could afford to pay I would. It's a simple matter of respect for what we go through, and the fact that everyone's time is worth something. Doctors are well paid, musicians usually aren't. I have come off playing for people and what we accomplished was more 'healing' than ten doctor's office trips.....

Bear in mind, BTW, I'm not talking paying a gospel choir + orchestra, or the Edward Hawkins Singers here---just a couple of hardworking musicians fittiing rehearsals into a plethora of far-ranging activities done daily to do a little thing known as survival....

[Guest youmustbe]

Unfortunately not everybody can get their just due. If I pay someone 1200 for 4 nights work, or 2000 or 5000 then surely they can afford carfare or come to rehearsal on their own money. What am I? A non-profit organization?

When I worked in advertising you were paid on your job description not on whether you lived around the block and could walk or in Westchester and had to commute on the train. And the company didn't pick up your lunch tab. Know what I mean?

Life is not fair. Every human activity that involves the exchange of money is filled with tales of woe.

[umum_cypher]

When I worked in advertising you were paid on your job description not on whether you lived around the block and could walk or in Westchester and had to commute on the train. And the company didn't pick up your lunch tab. Know what I mean?

Yeah, but if they'd have located your office in, say, Chicago one week, Washington DC the next and then two different boroughs a week back in NYC, you'd have asked for a new job description.

Hold on, you worked in advertising and they didn't pay for your lunch? You really should have asked for a new job description. That's not the kind of thing that goes on in Mad Men.

[Guest youmustbe]

Nice try but a stupid post! You are clueless, arent' you?

[bertrand]

This thread makes me puke.

[david weiss]

Actually according to what I've heard from various sources, at some point Alfred did pay guys for rehearsals.....