Metal 78 RPM Pressing Masters/Mothers

[Teasing the Korean]

My Dad told me that many of these, I think for Decca in particular, were melted down for WWII.

Do very many of these exist anymore?

I know I have some LPs that were allegedly mastered from new pressings of old 78 masters.

I would be curious to know if there are any estimates for the number of these that exist, particularly for jazz recordings.

[AllenLowe]

there's zillions of them for RCA/Victor/Columbia/OKeh, as those companies kept good vaults - and so did Decca, who lost virtually everything, or so we have been told, in that Universal fire. It's very easy to know when a master has been used - if the recording sounds incredibly clear, no high end attenutation, but, when you boost the treble way up, there's virtually no hiss, it's probably from a master. There are many lps like this, even an old EMI I have of Kid Ory and Johnny Dodds, with Lil Hardin/Armstrong from the 1920s. Some of the French Black and Whites were clearly made from masters; a huge amount that ACE in England is putting out of 40s-50s blues and r&B uses masters. Specialty Records reissues are generally good like this - there's lots -

Edited November 14, 2009 by AllenLowe

[medjuck]

There's quite a bit about them in this article (which had a thread devoted to it.)

http://www.JazzWax.com/2009/11/how-remasters-are-made.html

[Teasing the Korean]

Thanks for sharing.

The link you posted also contains this link to a 1942 RCA film showing how records are made:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxhiUgK5gzs...feature=related

Allen, it's nice to hear that some of the larger labels held onto their masters. What about labels like Dial or Savoy?

Is there any truth to the tale about masters being melted during WWII?

[AllenLowe]

I heard that story more in reference to Paramount and Gennett - and it's apparently true and one of the reasons we don't have things like the old King Oliver masters. The Savoy/Dial stuff is probably still around.

Edited November 15, 2009 by AllenLowe

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I heard that story more in reference to Paramount and Gennett - and it's apparently true and one of the reasons we don't have things like the old King Oliver masters. The Savoy/Dial stuff is probably still around.

I've heard it, too. Apparently a Chicago guy called John Steiner bought Paramount, then found that loads of the masters had been junked. Apparently, some farmer lined the walls of a chicken house out of some. Steiner rescued some and a bunch more, which Decca had been interested in buying, turned up at Riverside, who issued them, paying Steiner a small royalty. And that's it for Paramount, I gather.

Eli Oberstein bought Gennett but doesn't seem to have been too interested in reissuing material; he wanted the label so he could get around shellac rationing (only firms in existence before the war could get an allocation). This must have been when he was involved in Elite and Hit Records, not Varsity.

MG

[Hoppy T. Frog]

I heard that story more in reference to Paramount and Gennett - and it's apparently true and one of the reasons we don't have things like the old King Oliver masters. The Savoy/Dial stuff is probably still around.

I've heard it, too. Apparently a Chicago guy called John Steiner bought Paramount, then found that loads of the masters had been junked. Apparently, some farmer lined the walls of a chicken house out of some. Steiner rescued some and a bunch more, which Decca had been interested in buying, turned up at Riverside, who issued them, paying Steiner a small royalty. And that's it for Paramount, I gather.

Eli Oberstein bought Gennett but doesn't seem to have been too interested in reissuing material; he wanted the label so he could get around shellac rationing (only firms in existence before the war could get an allocation). This must have been when he was involved in Elite and Hit Records, not Varsity.

MG

Ken Steiner, I think.

[Chuck Nessa]

No, John Steiner. I knew him. You can get some background HERE.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Thanks Chuck - my computer crashed while I was assembling pages (grrrr!). Here's some more stuff about John Steiner and Paramount.

What happened to NYRL inventory?

http://www.mainspringpress.com/nyrl.html

Bob Koester's take

http://www.delmark.com/rhythm.steiner.htm

Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramount_Records

I think this story is dead interesting.

MG

[AllenLowe]

Paramount is the world's greatest label - once again I will recommend the various boxes that JSP has put out - and the Paramount Masters is the most important group of recordings I have ever heard - it's like discovering cave paintings made by geniuses who drank a little too much.

[paul secor]

Paramount is the world's greatest label - once again I will recommend the various boxes that JSP has put out - and the Paramount Masters is the most important group of recordings I have ever heard - it's like discovering cave paintings made by geniuses who drank a little too much.

JSP booted theirs from other reissue labels who did all of the work - tracking down the source 78's, mastering, etc.

[Neal Pomea]

once again I will recommend the various boxes that JSP has put out

JSP found their own sources for the stuff on Cajun: Rare and Authentic (4 cd set) and had Chris King do the remastering. The source was mainly 78s in the collection of Ron Brown of Athens, Tennessee.

[paul secor]

once again I will recommend the various boxes that JSP has put out

JSP found their own sources for the stuff on Cajun: Rare and Authentic (4 cd set) and had Chris King do the remastering. The source was mainly 78s in the collection of Ron Brown of Athens, Tennessee.

JSP does their own remastering occasionally, & they make note of that when it happens. But a lot of their boxes are boots of material that other companies have already done the work on.

[AllenLowe]

that bothers me not the least - it is one thing if you copy another project, cut for cut - what they've done is cull stuff from a lot of different places - and those other places were borrowing it anyway -

the Paramount Masters is MONUMENTAL - ought to be enshrined in the Smithsonian.

they've also got boxes of other Paramount stuff, old time music, string bands - the mastering isn't as good as Yazoo, but this stuff will eventually disappear if we don't grab onto it now.

Edited December 6, 2009 by AllenLowe

[papsrus]

Paramount is the world's greatest label - once again I will recommend the various boxes that JSP has put out - and the Paramount Masters is the most important group of recordings I have ever heard - it's like discovering cave paintings made by geniuses who drank a little too much.

I think I partied with those guys back in college one night. They had a bus and were from Texas, I believe.

... The JSP is on the way.