Europa Jazz

[Leeway]

I've been picking up "Europa Jazz" LPs; these are made in Italy. These are gatefold LPs, with some info on the artists, little or none on the date/place of performance. I'm thinking these are mostly bootlegs or unauthorized reissues, culled from European performances, but am not sure of that. Just recently, I picked up the following LPs for $1.00 each (figure I can't go wrong at that price):

-- Chick Corea with Woody Shaw, Hubert Laws, Bennie Maupin, Dave Holland and Horacee Arnold. Songs are: "The Brain," ""Waltz for Bill Evans," "Converge," and "Vamp"). (This might be the best of the bunch).

-- Gato Barbieri/Don Cherry; Albert Ayler; John Handy Quintet (3 separate live performances);

-- Elek Bacsik (solo guitar performance); Stephane Grappelli with Kenny Clarke on drums, Rene Urtreger on piano, J-M Ingrand on bass;

-- Bill Evans Trio (with Motian and La Faro), live performance (date/place not indicated); Charles Lloyd Quartet, with Keith Jarrett, Ron McClure, Jack DeJohnette; Dollar Brand; Michael White Quartet (with Cecil McBee on bass).

Anyone else been checking these "Europa" LPs out?

[JSngry]

Those things started out as cutouts, if I remember right. There was some sort of connection to the Sonny Lester group, since Solid State material turned up. But so did some happening live stuff.

Where you finding these things nowadays?

Oh, wait - there were tWO "Europa" series as I recall - one was something like "Historia d'el Jazz" or something like that, with dark covers, and then there was the ones with the white covers, which are the ones I've picked up some of.

[Leeway]

Those things started out as cutouts, if I remember right. There was some sort of connection to the Sonny Lester group, since Solid State material turned up. But so did some happening live stuff.

Where you finding these things nowadays?

Oh, wait - there were tWO "Europa" series as I recall - one was something like "Historia d'el Jazz" or something like that, with dark covers, and then there was the ones with the white covers, which are the ones I've picked up some of.

The ones I'm referring to have the (predominately) white with silver covers, with lettering in red and blue. This last bunch I found at a record show, but I also see them here and there at record shops. Some of the other ones I acquired have performances by Billie Holiday, Lester Young, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, Mingus, Monk, and Dolphy.

[JSngry]

Ok. SOME of that stuff is/was fairly common on various "budget" labels, but some of it wasn't. Definitely a series worth keeping an eye out for.

[JohnS]

Ok. SOME of that stuff is/was fairly common on various "budget" labels, but some of it wasn't. Definitely a series worth keeping an eye out for.

As well as "Europa Jazz" there was another very similar series titled "I Giganti Del Jazz". As Jim says the label is a real mess. Live dates, often lifted from elsewhere mixed with material that is far from common. These were budget issues but I see that they are beginning to show up on auction lists now.

I'd be surprised if there has been no research into the label.

The only ones I have are a Jimmy Ponder Trio plus one with two tracks by a Max Roach Sextet coupled with a cut each by Art Blakey and Horace Silver which I believe are straight lifts from Blue Note.

Edited November 29, 2003 by JohnS

[Jim R]

I always thought the white ones were a little odd, in terms of the groupings of artists on each LP. Sort of like the modern day Collectables CD twofers. I did pick up a few, though, when it became obvious that some contained tracks that were unavailable anywhere else (I had one with some rare Rene Thomas material that later was included on a Fresh Sound CD).

The black ones ("Il Grande del Jazz") were more of a dubious nature, as I recall. At least some of them. For example, there's a self-titled "Joe Williams" LP in the series that is actually the Roulette LP "Memories Ad Lib" by Williams and Basie. I think they messed up the sound, to boot.

[Leeway]

As well as "Europa Jazz" there was another very similar series titled "I Giganti Del Jazz". As Jim says the label is a real mess. Live dates, often lifted from elsewhere mixed with material that is far from common. These were budget issues but I see that they are beginning to show up on auction lists now.

I'd be surprised if there has been no research into the label.

That's what I was thinking. But it is tantalizing, and frustrating, to think that some of these tracks are "far from common" but with the lack of discographical information, it's nearly impossible to determine that. So far, I haven't found any research on these. What I like about the Europa series is that there seems to be a fair amount of modern, post-bop, and free jazz performances that I'm guessing are tough to find.

[brownie]

The Curcio I Giganti Del Jazz LPs were published in the '80s in Italy. I think they were distributed in Italian newsstands with one new issue appearing every week. I have a list going up to volume 100 (not enough time to list them all).

Many of the albums originated from the Solid State, Black and Blue and a couple of other labels but most of the compilations were from radio broadcasts which made some of the issues interesting. The discographical information provided was usually inaccurate.

Some of the LPs I have include:

- volume 8 (Chet Baker/Gerry Mulligan/Bud Powell/Clark Terry). This one has radio broadcasts that include the Clark Terry/Barney Wilen/Bud Powell/Eric Peter/Kenny Clarke sides that have appeared elsewhere since plus a Zoot Sims 1956 Paris broadcast of the Zoot Sims quartet (Martial Solal, Pierre Michelot, Kenny Clarke) playing 'It Had to be You' that has not appeared anywhere else,

- volume 10 (Coleman Hawkins/Stan Getz/Donald Byrd). This one features a 'Tenor Conclave' with Hawkins/Getz and Don Byas playing 'Back Home Again in Indiana' probably from a French Riviera jazz festival radio broadcast, plus tracks by two Stan Getz units, a 1959 Getz Quintet (Rene Urtreger, Jimmy Gourley, Jean-Marie Ingrand, Kenny Clarke) playing 'Dear Old Stockholm' and 'Lady Bird' and a Getz quartet (Rene Thomas, Eddy Louiss, Bernard Lubat) playing 'Theme for Manuel' and 'Our Kind of Saby'. The album lists the quartet sides as dating from 1959 but they actually originate from a radio broadcast from the 1971 Chateauvallon festival in France! These have not appeared anywhere else as far as I know,

- volume 20 (Stan Getz/Donald Byrd/Bobby Jaspar/Kenny Clarke) that had sides by Stan Getz units that appeared elsewhere but also had the 1958 Donald Byrd/Bobby Jaspar quintet playing 'More of the Same' which does not seem to have been issued anywhere else,

- volume 64 (Duke Ellington/Thad Jones/Kenny Dorham/Howard McGhee) that had sides by the Duke Ellington band at Newport 1966 and Monterey 1965 plus tracks by a 1961 trumpet get-together of Thad Jones, Howard McGhee and Kenny Dorham

with a rhythm section of Billy Taylor, Percy Heath and Al Heath that does not seem to have been published anywhere else either.

One of the volume I never saw was volume 55 which listed sides by Grant Green/Kenny Burrell/Billy Taylor. These may have been taken off a broadcast from a European tour.

[JSngry]

What does 'Our Kind of Saby' mean, anyway?

[Dan Gould]

Gotta go looking for that Grant/Kenny/Billy Taylor side!

Those Italian pressings (not these live ones, the other series) did include a great Sweets/Ben Webster Verve that wasn't out on CD until Verve did a two-fer a while back. It was the one wit "Blues for Piney Brown" among a string of "Blues for" tunes. I remember I got it for $2 very early on in my jazz collecting-I'd just heard the Columbia Ben and Sweets and was thrilled to find another one of those two together!

[Jim R]

As well as "Europa Jazz" there was another very similar series titled "I Giganti Del Jazz"

I was a little confused about these labels, so I did a search.

FWIW, the label I referred to- "Il Grande Del Jazz" (with the black covers) is actually spelled "I Grandi Del Jazz":

Both the Europa and the Curcio / I Giganti Del Jazz LP's had white covers, I believe:

Edited December 1, 2003 by Jim R

[brownie]

What does 'Our Kind of Saby' mean, anyway?

It's probably a play on words. ' Our Kind of Saby' (also spelled 'Sabi') is a composition from organist Eddy Louiss. It was the title of an Eddy Louiss album on the MPS/Saba label (Saba/Sabi/Saby ) from 1970.

Eddy Louiss recorded several versions of the tune with the Stan Getz quartet. An excellent one is on the Getz Quartet Verve album 'Dynasty'.

Edited December 2, 2003 by brownie

[Harold_Z]

Jim R said...>>I was a little confused about these labels, so I did a search.

FWIW, the label I referred to- "Il Grande Del Jazz" (with the black covers) is actually spelled "I Grandi Del Jazz<<

Thanks for clarifying that Jim, I was confused about the same thing. I have a few of those with the black covers and they're excellent.

Europa released the Otis Spann Candid recordings (they condensed two lps into one), and a lot of their catalogue was also available on cassette. Some of the vinyl I came across was not the greatest - sometimes records would skip right out of the package, but at the price (I usually saw these for 99 cents or $1.99 tops).

[Dan Gould]

One of the volume I never saw was volume 55 which listed sides by Grant Green/Kenny Burrell/Billy Taylor. These may have been taken off a broadcast from a European tour.

God, how I love Google!

Put "I Giganti Del Jazz Volume 55" in, and VIOLA-a place in the UK had it and as soon as i figure out how to pay them, it will be winging its way to me!!!

It was a little more than the $1 or $2 these ought to cost, but nothing outrageous. Including airmail, under $15.

Hope the Grant is worth it! And thanks, Brownie for mentioning it!

[brownie]

Hope the Grant is worth it!  And thanks, Brownie for mentioning it! 

Dan, you're welcome! Just let us know what it sounds like when you get it.

Bet you it comes from a concert in Berlin. Think Green and Burrell played together at a jazz festival years ago.

And since I know that you always want to improve your French, it's VOILA.

Not viola. Viola translates "raped' in French

Edited December 4, 2003 by brownie

[Dan Gould]

Actually, Brownie, that was an "inside joke" for (mostly) Americans who remember the TV show, "Married with Children." One of the characters was a dumb blonde type (I mean REALLY dumb) and she used to say "Viola!" when she meant "Voila!"

Good looking woman-I'm surprised she hasn't made an appearance in the Babe thread. If I had some time ....

As for the Grant Green, I hope the sound is good and that most of the LP is Grant and Kenny, and not one of those single track deals. Still it'd make a good Blindfold test, if they do play together!

[brownie]

I was raped :rsmile:

[Dan Gould]

I was raped :rsmile:

?

[Jazzmoose]

The black ones ("Il Grande del Jazz") were more of a dubious nature, as I recall. At least some of them.

I've got one of those, a Coltrane. I was hoping for some cool unheard versions of stuff when I found it, but from what I remember it was all straight from the Atlantic studio LPs...

[BeBop]

Thanks for reminding me of these old dogs. I pulled out a few:

Europa 1056 - Howard McGhee; James Moody with Zoot Sims (I don't know of other issues of this material, but I wouldn't doubt it.)

Europa 1043 - Zoot Sims, Bucky Pizzarelli, Milt Hinton (Issued far and wide on cheapie labels)

Europa 1034 - Dizzy Gillespie; Hubert Fol; Gerry Mulligan with Ruby Braff, Bud Freeman

Europa 1014 - Big Joe Turner with Buck Clayton, Vic Dickenson; Stuff Smith with Stephane Grappelli; Memphis Slim; Buck Clayton

I Giganti del Jazz 43 - Johnny Guarnieri, Jimmy Shirley, Stephane Grappelli; Slam Stewart

I Giganti del Jazz 38 - Benny Goodman Big Band with Taft Jordan, Zoot Sims, Seldon Powell, Gene Allen and Billy Bauer

I Giganti del Jazz 29 - Mezz Mezzrow; Buck Clayton with Pee Wee Russell, Vic Dickenson and Bud Freeman

I Giganti del Jazz 26 - Harry "The Hipster" Gibson; Benny Carter; Cecil Gant

I Giganti del Jazz 13 - Milt Buckner with Buddy Tate

I Gianti del Jazz 2 - Sarah; Diz, Miles, Mingus

I Grandi Incontri - Harry Edison and Ben Webster

Some thoroughly decent music here. I'm shaking my head, though. Marveling at how mainstream my tastes were 20 or so years ago. And how I might have 'passed' on some other interesting-looking items

- Grant Green, Kenny Burrell, Billy Taylor

- Michael Longo, Joe Farrell, Ron Carter and Randy Brecker (?)

- Monk, Phil Woods, Jimmy Cleveland, Max Roach

- Mingus, Monk, Trane, Dolphy

- Earl Hines, Lockjaw Davis, Harry Edison

- Tony Scott, Maynard Ferguson

- Lucky Thompson, Cedar Walton, Sam Jones, Louis Hayes

- Lionel Hapton, Chick Corea, Don Lamond

- Art Blakey, Freddie Hubbard, Horace Silver, Max Roach

Who knows how many of these artists actually played together on the LPs... (Strictly rhetorical question. I'm not buying recorded music any more, so it's just water under the bridge/rumination.)

Anyway, fun.

Edited December 7, 2003 by BeBop