I'm Mad Jamal Putters Around

[AllenLowe]

allright - there's Jamal from some TV show - illustrious audience includes Jo Jones, Ben Webster, Hank Jones, Buck Clayton, maybe Harold Ashby, a guy who looks like Hentoff, maybe, and probably some other famous people -

and Jamal plays one of the worst solos I've ever heard by a musician with a reputation - all kinds of good ideas (a la Nat Cole in particular) in a kind of round - that are meaningless in any kind of context. And it keeps going....and going....and going....

....same nice phrases, over and over, on a musical bridge to nowhere.

Weird guy -

Edited December 8, 2009 by AllenLowe

[Don Brown]

Not Harold Ashby, George Duvivier.

[clifford_thornton]

As usual, the YouTube comments are beyond insipid.

[AllenLowe]

that's Duvivier? I don't think we're talking about the same guy - I'm not referring to the guy to the left and somewhat in front of Jamal and next to Clayton -

Edited December 8, 2009 by AllenLowe

[Dave James]

Call me irresponsible, but I've always like that solo. It's on a compilation called "The Greatest Jazz Films Ever". I mean, I'm no musician, but it seems to me it's a solo with the kind of space Jamal is famous for incorporating in his music. I also dig the insouciant cool of Vernel Fournier on the drums. The whole thing has this huge '50's jazz vibe going, e.g. the guy in the audience with the pipe and his exotic looking girlfriend, that I find pretty entertaining.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Dave James

[JSngry]

Jamal's not about "soloing". Never has been.

As part of a well-balanced jazz diet, I think Jamal's concepts are damn-near indispensable. As a steady diet, or even a dominant flavor, I don't think I need all that. But the guy has some shit happening in terms of group organization and such. Compare what he does to any other number of piano trios who might have an intro and an outro and then everything else in between would be straight AABA, or at best, some little reprise of the intro as a bridge between solos.

His whole repertoire is full of stuff like that. "Soloing" is so not the point! That's what Miles dug, the concept, up to and including the use of space as an organizational principle and dynamics as a color unto itself. That shit was fresh then, and its lessons are still in need of being heeded today.

[.:.impossible]

enjoyed it. thanks for the link.

[JSngry]

Yeah, in Jamal's trios, there always this constant shifting of weight, of density. It's never the same trio from beginning to end. Sometimes the bass has it, sometimes the drums, sometimes the piano, sometimes the whole trio. With this trio in particular, you had two other voices who understood what was going on and were more than able & willing to make it happen. Check out how all that little trinkly shit that he does very effectively pulls the music away from "piano solo" and into Israel Crosby-land, a most groovy place to be.

I pretty much think you have to listen to any Jamal unit as an ensemble instead of a "piano trio", unless your concept of "piano trio" recognizes that it can be more than just a "piano-bass-drums" vehicle for soloists. For that matter, I also think that the concept of "ensemble" is becoming lost in jazz in general. I mean, who really gives a fuck about the 2nd tenor part to a Thad Jones chart, or a trombone part in the middle of of an Ellington sax section, or a minor 16th in a Gil Evans chart, even though those are among the crucial things that make that shit what it is? Everybody's just soloist this, soloist that, good groove this, good groove, that, energy this, energy that, pocket here, pocket there, everywhere a pocket pocket. Well, ok, that's all good, truly, but it's not all of the good!

Ensemble. Group. Unit. Call it what you want to, but any time more than one peoples play together, there are decisions being made about how to do it. And the shrewd ones think about what the possibilities are and what the effect of the possibilities will be in relatively "scientific" terms. Jamal was/is a shrewd one indeed!

[Chuck Nessa]

Sometimes it is just too damn cute, nomatter what Miles thought.

[JSngry]

Indeed it is, but that is not why it matters. "Cute" is only skin deep.

[Don Brown]

Allen, I just took a second look. You're right. That is a young Harold Ashby at the 3:43 mark, and the guy with the beard and pipe is definitely Nat Hentoff. I guess I was looking mainly at the members of the other band that's featured on this Robert Herridge program who are lined up alongside the piano. They are from right to left Hank Jones, Buck Clayton, George Duvivier (with the dark glasses) Ben Webster, Vic Dickenson, and Jo Jones.

[Dave James]

If you have the DVD, all these guys play at one point or another. I don't recall Harold Ashby performing, but I suppose that doesn't preclude his being there.

[clifford_thornton]

Vernell Fournier was an important influence on Alvin Fielder. It was nice to see the video for that reason alone.

[AllenLowe]

the rhythm section sounds great, but I find Jamal incoherent, all effect, no substance. There's a difference between mannerism and style, and to me he's all mannerism - and he's not even particularly good at what he's doing - aside from repeating himself ad-nauseam he loses his way, fluffs things, loses continuity - he's actually surprisingly sloppy at times; phrases just drop off, just stop, because he doesn't know what to do with them. Weird stuff.

Edited December 8, 2009 by AllenLowe

[clifford_thornton]

I've never gotten all that into Jamal, but haven't really dug anywhere remotely deep.

[paul secor]

I'm with Allen on this one. Doesn't sound like much going on to me.

[AllenLowe]

just as an aside, years ago I knew one of his bass players who described the difficulties of worked with Jamal - his name for the leader was "I'm Mad Jamal."

[Christiern]

I think he was just being Fritz Jones.

Richard Groove Holmes, Jamal, Lucky Thompson and I receive a trophy—no, it was not for bowling.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Christiern