Finally the Blues

[AllenLowe]

I'm gonna have to give you co-authorship. Thanks for the work.

[Hot Ptah]

I started listening to CD 9, then CD 8, then CD 7. My son was in the car with me as I listened and I imagined that he might like the later recordings better.

WOW! This is a great set. It is an amazing stew of acoustic country blues all time classics, early jazz works in blues form, spirituals, piano blues, and some undefinable odd songs, which I especially love. 'Ham Beats All Meat"--wow, there had been a hole in my listening soul before I heard that one for the first time!

There is enough of the "must include" well known artists and their classic songs, but then so many obscure songs too. I love the song on Disc 9 of the physician and woman patient--it reminds me of a similar routine by Lonnie Johnson in which he was a dentist. I had not known that the Lonnie Johnson song was only a part of a song tradition about women and medical men.

Before hearing the three CDs which I have listened to in this set, I had thought that I had a decent working knowledge of earlier blues recordings....but no, I can already tell that I did not.

Allen, I wonder if you could tell us why you chose to include two takes of Helen Morgan singing the same song on the same date?

[Neal Pomea]

Easy Rider Blues, Soileau and Robin (for Leo Soileau and Moise Robin), per Tony Russell's book.

[AllenLowe]

well, I would call them clarifications - corrections are in order for title mistakes (eg The Vamp/The Wamp) and spelling. I worry mostly about date and personnel/leader errors. So far I have not really seen that kind of problem (except the McCoy/Rosie/Rosa Mae Moore, which was based on an apparently inaccurate LP notation) - disliking my the method of formatting (which is based on the old reference librarian idea of point of most common reference) is somewhat different. To me, if you can look at it, know who was playing and when, and then see supportive notes that are accurate and in depth and have relevant emphasis, than the job is done. And I don't really lose sleep over certain kinds of shorthand.

Corrections are fine - I think the problem is a certain collector's righteousness (and I don't ascribe this to you, Rosatsi) that is meant to intimidate the uninitiated as less pure in intent, and that can have an inhibiting effect on projects like these.

as for "two takes of Helen Morgan singing the same song on the same date? " - mastering error. Either that or I just can't get enough of that heavenly warble....

Edited April 26, 2010 by AllenLowe

[Dan Gould]

If there is a mastering error, isn't it likely a track was left off?

We want replacement discs! We want replacement discs!

Just kidding, I think you've done a helluva job, leave the complaining to the peanut gallery.

[AllenLowe]

funny thing was that as I mastered the thing I kept confusing Helen Morgan with Ruth Etting - very different singers, yet somehow with a similar aura. I'm hoping there are few if any actual mis-identifications of tracks - as far as I know there are 2 on That Devilin' Tune, not bad considering that it, too, had over 900 cuts. Really the Blues was mastered on hard disc - Devilin Tune on DAT - so Really the Blues was a lot quicker and easier to do, and less prone to confusion. Typos are another matter, as I did only some of the proofreading; in the graphics stage there was some assistance, but it's unfortunately an occupational hazard in the reissue world.

Edited April 26, 2010 by AllenLowe

[Hot Ptah]

funny thing was that as I mastered the thing I kept confusing Helen Morgan with Ruth Etting - very different singers, yet somehow with a similar aura. I'm hoping there are few if any actual mis-identifications of tracks - as far as I know there are 2 on That Devilin' Tune, not bad considering that it, too, had over 900 cuts. Really the Blues was mastered on hard disc - Devilin Tune on DAT - so Really the Blues was a lot quicker and easier to do, and less prone to confusion. Typos are another matter, as I did only some of the proofreading; in the graphics stage there was some assistance, but it's unfortunately an occupational hazard in the reissue world.

I am referring to CD 7, Track 24, and CD 8, Track 7. Both are listed as Helen Morgan, "Can't Help Lovin' That Man."

If this was a mistake, please rush out a corrected copy with a different song on CD 8, Track 7, so that I can be one of a few with the special collectors edition of Really the Blues, the impossibly rare version with two Helen Morgans.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Hot Ptah

[papsrus]

Tons of brilliant stuff here Allen. Most of which I certainly had not listened to before. I love the variation, the shifting terrain, in the way it is all presented, too. On disc 8, for example, the listener goes from the absolutely otherworldly 'Old Time Baptism PT 2' (RM Massey) to Frances Hereford & Jelly Roll Morton's incredible 'Midnight Mama' in the space of three tracks!

And upon listening to the opening track on disc 8, 'Every Day of the Week Blues' (Pink Anderson, Simmie Dooley), I immediately thought, "Well, I now know where Dylan came from."

[Big Beat Steve]

Anyway, I'm still looking forward to the remaining discs. I'll probably keep my corrections to myself this time.

DON'T!!!!!

Edited April 26, 2010 by Big Beat Steve

[AllenLowe]

yes, they are both the same recording (the two versions of Helen Morgan) - I think also that I transferred both an LP version and a CD version and didn't realize they were both still on there. Unless they sound exactly the same, in which case I think I was confused by the matrix numbers - one of which was

090290289089082908908920890892089082908208908984787676732456563724 a

and the other was

090290289089082908908920890892089082908208908984787676732456563724 b

(I was trying to confuse Big Beat Steve) -

[Hot Ptah]

yes, they are both the same recording (the two versions of Helen Morgan) - I think also that I transferred both an LP version and a CD version and didn't realize they were both still on there. Unless they sound exactly the same, in which case I think I was confused by the matrix numbers - one of which was

090290289089082908908920890892089082908208908984787676732456563724 a

and the other was

090290289089082908908920890892089082908208908984787676732456563724 b

(I was trying to confuse Big Beat Steve) -

One of the versions is listed at over 3 minutes and the other is listed at under 3 minutes. I have not listened to them back to back several times to determine if they are identical otherwise. There is such a wealth of great material to get to, that I did not want to stop and do that.

[AllenLowe]

there could be some speed variation - or difference in header or footer time - when I have a chance I'll check it out.

[Big Beat Steve]

yes, they are both the same recording (the two versions of Helen Morgan) - I think also that I transferred both an LP version and a CD version and didn't realize they were both still on there. Unless they sound exactly the same, in which case I think I was confused by the matrix numbers - one of which was

090290289089082908908920890892089082908208908984787676732456563724 a

and the other was

090290289089082908908920890892089082908208908984787676732456563724 b

(I was trying to confuse Big Beat Steve) -

What for?

I am no matrix number fetichist. I'll leave that to the Blue Note geeks around here.

But in fact I do seem to remember a CD on the Ace label that had the same song on it twice by mistake and Ace (e.g. through a note in the Blues & Rhythm mag) went out of its way to launch a recall. :D

So ...?

(But I take it that you have double-checked Vols. 2 to 4 of that package to make sure this doubling up was a sole and single occurrence? )

[Hot Ptah]

No recall is needed as far as I am concerned. I am not complaining even if there was one duplication. With the immense riches of this set, it doesn't matter. I brought it up only because I thought that there might be an interesting story about two takes of the song.

I am feeling grateful toward Allen, more so as I explore this volume even further. What a great collection! Allen really has a knack for picking songs with a distinctive quality within their stylistic niche.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Hot Ptah

[Big Beat Steve]

No recall is needed as far as I am concerned.

I dont think anybody would need one. Give or take one song, so what?

[papsrus]

Time to drop that bone, dog.

Legitimate corrections, fine. They should be (and are being) pointed out. Endlessly needling Allen over preferences on how to list track credits, or the inevitable typos that will slip through in a project of this magnitude, or a single duplicate track among the mountain that he's presented here, uncalled for, IMO.

It's a fucking glorious set, obviously a labor of love, and a job well done.

[Big Beat Steve]

Irony aside, I somehow resent that "dog" tag (pun intended), bull(y)dog.

BTW, in case you hadn't noticed, it's been dropped a while ago and the discussion had moved on.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Big Beat Steve

[AllenLowe]

I hadn't noticed -

[Christiern]

Hate to say this, but 090290289089082908908920890892089082908208908984787676732456563724 c has always been my favorite take.

[Hot Ptah]

Allen, where did you find this great stuff?

I am amazed at how many records you have included with excellent acoustic slide guitar playing. I had no idea that so many even existed.

One example--CD 5, Song 2, "Honey in the Rock" by Blind Mamie Forehand. This song, unknown to me before today, has a yearning, haunting vocal and some first rate slide guitar backing. It's one of the more powerful recordings I have ever heard. Again, where did you find this great stuff, Allen?

But then, you have included the comfort foods of Doc Boggs, Tommy Johnson, John Hurt, Blind Blake, Blind Willie Johnson etc., so that the entire project does not seem like one giant roller coaster ride into obscurities. I am more impressed with this set the more I delve into it.

I am also digging the jazz too, of course. I wonder how a hard core blues fanatic, who has never listened to jazz, will react to the great cuts by Charlie Johnson, King Oliver, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Joe Venuti, Meade Lux Lewis etc.

That George Gershwin selection is an inspired choice.

Annette Hanshaw's "I Must Have That Man", while quite good, has made me appreciate what a towering achievement Billie Holliday and Lester Young created on the same song. It is great to hear a different, good version for comparison.

[Dan Gould]

I wonder how a hard core blues fanatic, who has never listened to jazz, will react to the great cuts by Charlie Johnson, King Oliver, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Joe Venuti, Meade Lux Lewis etc.

Brings up a thought, probably a silly one since I expect Allen is on top of it - but has the set been offered on Blindman's Blues forum?

[J.A.W.]

I wonder how a hard core blues fanatic, who has never listened to jazz, will react to the great cuts by Charlie Johnson, King Oliver, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Joe Venuti, Meade Lux Lewis etc.

Brings up a thought, probably a silly one since I expect Allen is on top of it - but has the set been offered on Blindman's Blues forum?

Yes

[AllenLowe]

yes, next stop Weenie Campbell - I'm a little overwhelmed right now, trying to make contact with critics, etc.

as for the variety of tunes - almost everything on the set is from my own collection, LP, CD, 78, etc. I don't really know how I did it, but the current mess in my basement is a sign that I was there and gone. I basically went through everything I own, and spent maybe an additional $1500 on materials (I know this figure is close, since I am doing my taxes this week).

I did a little shopping at Stereo Jacks (where I was fortunate to snap up a pile of LPs from a recently-deceased collector; also, my local used record store had some choice things - for example - a Savoy LP reissue of John Lee Hooker which was so much better sounding than the CD versions that it was both laughable and scandalous). I've been somewhat on top of the whole blues reissue thing the last 15 years, have snapped everything up that I could, as well as grabbing vanishing LPs with good sound (especially French black and whites, RCA/BMGs, Columbia/EMIs, et al). Sources are of prime importance, of course, as a good source makes any restoration engineer sound like a genius (I took the King Oliver from a very good-sounding 10 inch Columbia). Of course, there was also Document, of which I own a lot, and they are not as bad as they are purported to be, sound-wise (in many cases I could tell they had used LP transfers from decent vinyl).

I tried to put some out-of-the-way things on it, too - there's a Charlies Ives solo piano piece coming up, an Aaron Copeland piece (called blues but very far from it) and even a Harry Partch spoken word, put there since Partch had a lot to say on the relationship between American speech and American vernacular music. And, most happily of all, the set ends with a Jaki Byard solo.

as for the hardcore blues guys, it will be interesting - even true experts like Paul Oliver show a deep misunderstanding of, for one example, Ethel Waters, and I tried to deal with this. I also have a greater sympathy for the whole minstrel ethos than most critics, and I did my best to include and explain.

Most frustrating is when I find things that I think I should have included - like more post-War acoustic things, or some more on the Popular Front (though I do have Woody Guthrie/Cisco Houston, Josh White, and Sonny Terry, Brownie McGhee, Leadbelly - I just should have engaged with the subject in greater detail).

Edited April 27, 2010 by AllenLowe

[ghost of miles]

Most frustrating is when I find things that I think I should have included - like more post-War acoustic things, or some more on the Popular Front (though I do have Woody Guthrie/Cisco Houston, Josh White, and Sonny Terry, Brownie McGhee, Leadbelly - I just should have engaged with the subject in greater detail).

Have you ever seen Bear Family's SONGS FOR POLITICAL ACTION? It covers that area thoroughly--exhaustively, even!

Really looking forward to picking up V. 1 of your blues set, Allen, when a little extra cash blows my way at the end of next month.

[AllenLowe]

Ghost - just tried to send you a message, but the messenger wouldn't let me - contact me at alowe5@maine.rr.com.