Ouch!!!!

[kenny weir]

I always cheers for the bull, no worries. And to see it as theater rather than sport seems a sly stretch ... when the "theater" is based on what is, ostensibly at least, a contest.

And I see little difference between this cruelty and that of rodeo bull riding, the death of the bull notwithstanding.

[Big Wheel]

I always cheers for the bull, no worries. And to see it as theater rather than sport seems a sly stretch ... when the "theater" is based on what is, ostensibly at least, a contest.

I didn't say it was theater, I said it was closer to theater than a sport. When you watch a soccer match or baseball game or swim meet, the ultimate outcome is totally unpredictable. Anyone has a "fighting chance" to win the game. Hence bookies make tons of money on these things.

No bullfight aficionado thinks the bull has a "fighting chance" against the torero any more than you'd think that Tybalt has a "fighting chance" against Romeo. But that's not why you go see Romeo and Juliet, of course - you go because you want to see actors put on an excellent performance that evokes the pain of the star-crossed lovers and their families. That is why bullfighting is closer to theater than a sport - yes, the whole thing is framed around a "contest," and a dangerous one at that, but that isn't the fundamental thing that draws people to it.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Big Wheel

[Brad]

I think Big Wheel has it about right. Unless you have lived in Spain or immersed yourself in Spanish culture I don't think you can understand it, whether you like it or not. It's not sport, it's a spectacle. BTW, to guard against a goring, before the fight starts, the bull's neck muscles are weakened so that he keeps his head down. This also enhances the spectacle, the spectacular passes that you see.

[Dan Gould]

I understand the guy is back in intensive care. The bull is still dead.

I always cheers for the bull, no worries.

So is it OK if I say "then there is still hope for a tie"?

[Chuck Nessa]

So if there was a culture where "deflowering virgins" was a national sport/spectacle, we should think it's ok?

[Dan Gould]

At the risk of really making it political, how about a culture that mutilates young girl's genitals to ensure chastity and minimize or eliminate sexual pleasure?

[Big Wheel]

So if there was a culture where "deflowering virgins" was a national sport/spectacle, we should think it's ok?

Why, how utterly barbaric of them!

More seriously, who in this thread is defending bullfighting? All I'm saying is that if you're going to attack it, you should probably at least not display a basic misunderstanding of what you're attacking.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Big Wheel

[kenny weir]

So is it OK if I say "then there is still hope for a tie"?

No.

[kenny weir]

I do feel there's little defence for bullfighting, rodeo crap and jumps racing, which is a hot topic in my home state.

However, devil's advocate: I'm a hypocrite like just about everyone else I know: For the simple reason that when it comes to the meat, and much of the other food I eat, it's a matter of "out of sight, out of mind" when it comes to the manner and conditions of its production.

[Big Wheel]

However, devil's advocate: I'm a hypocrite like just about everyone else I know: For the simple reason that when it comes to the meat, and much of the other food I eat, it's a matter of "out of sight, out of mind" when it comes to the manner and conditions of its production.

Right. My personal feeling on bullfighting is that glorifying the killing of animals is at best pretty morally problematic. But I find it pretty hard to swallow when people proclaim their outrage about bullfighting one minute and tuck into their veal parmigiana the next. The bull in the ring leads a charmed existence for all but the last 30 minutes of its life, whereas your average calf raised for veal has a life that's entirely miserable. Having seen giant feedlots, I don't think it's all that much better to be a steer that's destined to be someone's porterhouse.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

bull leaps into crowd!

whoa ... here's a bull who must have been channeling that airline stewardess dude and just could not take it anymore. you go bull!

[mjazzg]

Very uncomfortable viewing. Just illustrates to me how petrified and disorientated the animal must have been. One day there will be the realisation that using animals for sport is not good for their welfare nor does it reflect well on humankind.

[papsrus]

Using animals for torture also not a great idea.

[BruceH]

I lived in Spain when I was a kid and saw a few but no gorings like that. It's not a sport but some kind of activity that's part of the culture, of what makes Spain a fascinating place. However, I think it's time for it to go.

I agree; it's time for Spain to go.

Wait...what was that again?