Bol Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 (edited) I've just read about Whitney Balliett, and am thinking about getting a book of some of his reviews. Am wondering which one to get. Is his "Collected Works" the one to get? Or is there some other book that is a better collection/introduction? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks. Edited December 14, 2010 by Bol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 I like The Sound Of Surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 Log on to your library system's web site and order a few. You can get an idea from that. I find that reading Whitney Balliett can be enjoyable. However, imo he was a better salesman than he was a critic, and I keep that it mind when I read some of the things he wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownian Motion Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 I've just read about Whitney Balliett, and am thinking about getting a book of some of his reviews. Am wondering which one to get. Is his "Collected Works" the one to get? Or is there some other book that is a better collection/introduction? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks. My advice would be to buy the Collected Works. IMO Balliett was at his best when writing about the generation of musicians that developed before the 2nd World War, musicians who were still active when Balliett began his writing career in the mid 1950s. You could buy those early books individually, but some of them can be fairly pricey, whereas the Collected Works can be purchased used for a modest price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 (edited) Get Balliett from the library-- his glib technique doesn't mask his lack of knowledge/insight for long. Balliett is also the role model for the worst high gloss hacks of later generations so... beware. Better to spend your time & energy tracking down the jazz writing of Wilder Hobson-- seriously. Moms Knows Best "Sound of Surprise" catchphrase shows just how relentlessly full of shit Balliett is: we can ALL (well all "we" who are avid ragtime to swing to be-bop etc listeners both small combos & big bands) rattle off DOZENS upon DOZENS upon 100s of 'improvised' solos that are... Damn near the same take to take, performance to performance. Where's the 'surprise,' jackoff? That's not a 'criticism' in the least, ** I ** didn't invent the 'surprise' horseshit or the false elevation of 'improvisation' over composition, arrangement, timbre, etc. FOREWARNED! Edited December 14, 2010 by MomsMobley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 Here is a link to an Amazon page where you can get The Complete New Yorker on DVD for only $17! It has every page of every issue from 1925 to 2006. It is an incredible bargain and it will give you everything Whitney wrote for the magazine, as well as all the Profile articles, ads,cartoons, EVERYTHING! No other jazz writer has had as good a way with words as Whitney. You may not always agree with his assessments, but even if you violently disagree, you can savor his prose. I paid $75 for this set, and that was a bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 The 1963 Penguin edition of The Sound of Surprise is still on my shelf, though I haven't looked at it for years. British readers of a certain age will be interested to know it was priced at 4/-. At the time I was very impressed by it and I still find the phrase "sound of surprise" useful when talking about jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 "Moms" does not always know best, apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 Don't forget WINTHROP SARGENT, which Chris' suggestion will get you too... People like Balliett because he makes them feel smarter than they are/he was-- otherwise, save a SMALL amount of useful reportage, he's straight bullshittin'. Enjoy the style if you care to but don't pretend it's more or better than that either. I say, again, WILDER HOBSON ... tho' Robert Fitzgerald is even greater Time Inc. lit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 Of course, none of them could hold a candle to Scott Yanow—although I sometimes wish someone would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 i have "collected works" which i keep in the loo. i am about 300 pages into it and figure i will finish it in time for the 2012 election! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 Here is a link to an Amazon page where you can get The Complete New Yorker on DVD for only $17! It has every page of every issue from 1925 to 2006. It is an incredible bargain and it will give you everything Whitney wrote for the magazine, as well as all the Profile articles, ads,cartoons, EVERYTHING! No other jazz writer has had as good a way with words as Whitney. You may not always agree with his assessments, but even if you violently disagree, you can savor his prose. I paid $75 for this set, and that was a bargain. Great recommendation. I have the set and it's amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnymax Posted December 14, 2010 Report Share Posted December 14, 2010 ...People like Balliett because he makes them feel smarter than they are.. So, that would make him the anti-Moms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 He was an interesting wordsmith and sometimes an interesting critic. He is a good look inside NYC culturally accepted opinion of the time. If you are up to the task, he's a great read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 A post of mine from 3/27/06 that led to some amusing and perhaps enlightening talk back and forth: 'This came up a while ago, when someone referred to Whitney Balliett's being "broad-minded" in his tastes, but I wasn't able to cite chapter and verse. Back in 1956 or '57, Balliett wrote the liner notes for the Pacific Jazz album "Grand Encounter -- 2 Degrees East, 3 Degrees West," with John Lewis, Bill Perkins, Jim Hall, Percy Heath, and Chico Hamilton. In the course of praising the certainly praiseworthy Perkins for his gentle lyricism, Balliett went on to say this: "There is [in Perkins' playing] none of the hair-pulling, the bad tone, or the ugliness that is now a growing mode, largely in New York, among the work of the hard-bopsters like Sonny Rollins, Hank Mobley, and JR Monterose."' 'Actually, I kind of like "the hair-pulling" -- in one way, it's completely out of left field; in another way, it reveals exactly where Whitney was coming from.' Added now: Also, as Jim Sangrey pointed out on that 2006 thread [Lord, we've been at this for that long], linking Rollins and Mobley in terms of their tone suggests that Whitney wasn't listening very carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 Also, has the original poster, or most Whitney Balliett partisans read: * Frederick Douglass' 4th of July Oration * W.E.B. Dubois' "Souls of Blacks Folk" * Benjamin Quarles "Allies For Freedom" or "Blacks on John Brown" http://www.amazon.com/Allies-Freedom-Blacks-John-Brown/dp/0306809613 ... * Rex Stewart "Jazz Masters of the '30s" * Arthur Taylor "Notes & Tones" *** With ** every ** fucking opportunity, and $$$, Whitney Balliett was, truly, a poorly educated man. Compare his work in bulk to, say, Edmund Wilson "Patriotic Gore" and see how heard more better. Hobson and Sargent are important too for being there at same time and immediately straining against limits of received form-- And moving on. See Sargent's "Bhagavad Gita," say. Hobson was more pro journalist in many roles than straight up feature writer thus much lesser known but still-- still! *** Tommy Flanagan is NOT 'a poet of the keyboard' no matter how many nincompoops think they're being Balliett-esque in saying so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 Also, has the original poster, or most Whitney Balliett partisans read: * Frederick Douglass' 4th of July Oration * W.E.B. Dubois' "Souls of Blacks Folk" * Benjamin Quarles "Allies For Freedom" or "Blacks on John Brown" http://www.amazon.com/Allies-Freedom-Blacks-John-Brown/dp/0306809613 ... * Rex Stewart "Jazz Masters of the '30s" * Arthur Taylor "Notes & Tones" *** With ** every ** fucking opportunity, and $$$, Whitney Balliett was, truly, a poorly educated man. Compare his work in bulk to, say, Edmund Wilson "Patriotic Gore" and see how heard more better. Hobson and Sargent are important too for being there at same time and immediately straining against limits of received form-- And moving on. See Sargent's "Bhagavad Gita," say. Hobson was more pro journalist in many roles than straight up feature writer thus much lesser known but still-- still! *** Tommy Flanagan is NOT 'a poet of the keyboard' no matter how many nincompoops think they're being Balliett-esque in saying so. Almost incomprehensible post by Moms, but I did (do) like Notes And Tones & Jazz Masters Of The 30's. Otherwise a bunch of elitist posturing, as usual. Moms, we're not as dumb as you seem to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 (edited) Almost incomprehensible post by Moms, but I did (do) like Notes And Tones & Jazz Masters Of The 30's. Otherwise a bunch of elitist posturing, as usual. Moms, we're not as dumb as you seem to think. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Got his cultural education from fucking Whitney Balliett. So come on Hoots, tell us your favorite passages-- pure style-- of DuBois. Or, if his poetry doesn't appeal, tell is why its inferior to the f-i-n-e stylings of Balliett? "Jazz" deserves its intellectual ghetto when even 'caring' fans pimp fluff whitey 9 times out of 10 (99 out of 100?) instead of a dozen other less comforting contemporary and preceding voices. Which, of course, not everyone in their own time knew. Could Louis Armstrong have told us about the Slaughterhouse Cases? About their aftermath, to a degree, yes but more? Curl up with Whitney Balliett then and pretend ya'll are learning shit save to cover your eyes with goddamn 'style.' Edited December 15, 2010 by MomsMobley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 Keep that up, Moms, and we won't have to ask why you post under a silly name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 clem is that you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 u so smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 (edited) John Corigliano is still a highly relevant artist and cultural figure... You-- ... Well, Christiern, why don't you tell us about Jourdan Anderson? He might even have been related to Ivie-- Although readers of Whitney Balliett wouldn't even think to wonder it... Would they? Edited December 15, 2010 by MomsMobley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 15, 2010 Report Share Posted December 15, 2010 The Corigliano I've heard sounded irritating. What should I hear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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