Barry Bonds On Trial

[Tim McG]

Not sure this has ever been posted:

http://stanmusialsstance.com/2010/02/10/hr-rates-and-steroid-use/

This is sure interesting...

That's an excellent analysis! Hard to argue with that data, too.

The graph for Darrell Evans was especially neat. He was part of the '73 Braves where 3 players hit 40 HRs. At 38 he and Fisk both had huge "old age" HR spikes. Yet with Darrell you can see that it was a league-wide jump in HRs, not just an individual 'roidy thing. He's kind of the poster boy for SABR where it showed a guy could hit .243 yet be more valuable than a .280 hitter because of his power, walks and for a time defense. Thanks for the link Vajerzy, I hadn't come across that one before.

There was more breaking down of video in those days, too. The batting techniques were more advanced, as well.

I think it just shows that players can spike in HRs depending upon the kind of year they are having. Happens all the time.

[RDK]

Putting ketchup on a hot dog is fucking stupid.

You're welcome.

Hey now!

As someone who detests all things pickle or mustard - seriously, I can't stand them! - my hot dog condiment of choice is ketchup or bbq sauce. But if it's a really good, flavorful dog I actually do prefer them plain.

No, putting steak sauce on a good steak is fucking stupid. Putting ketchup on a hot dog is like putting mustard on a hot dog, except it's ketchup and not mustard.

Either way, it's still a hot dog.

Now this I can agree with!

Why have a plain old nasty hot dog, when you can have a spicy sausage? With mustard, or with marinara and mozzarella, a sausage beats a frank in every way imaginable.

Jon wins!

[papsrus]

Seems like the longer deliberations go on, the more likely it is that Bonds is facing conviction on some counts and acquittal on some others.

Or in other words, completely and unequivocally exonerated, in the upside down world of Bonds' apologists.

Either that, or there's a Bonds' stooge on the panel and we get a hung jury.

[Tim McG]

Seems like the longer deliberations go on, the more likely it is that Bonds is facing conviction on some counts and acquittal on some others.

Or in other words, completely and unequivocally exonerated, in the upside down world of Bonds' apologists.

Either that, or there's a Bonds' stooge on the panel and we get a hung jury.

Or he's not guilty.

[Dan Gould]

I saw some commentary to the effect that its a complex case and you can't make conclusions from long deliberations but really, is it that complex? The prosecution put up a couple of steroid experts and otherwise it was a few ballplayers and his long-term friends who testified against him. The defense tried to discredit and drew some blood to some extent, but really, either you wiped out their testimony or you didn't. If you wiped it out, he's already had his acquital party.

Its either a deeply split jury or there are hold-outs against conviction on some counts.

[Tim McG]

I saw some commentary to the effect that its a complex case and you can't make conclusions from long deliberations but really, is it that complex? The prosecution put up a couple of steroid experts and otherwise it was a few ballplayers and his long-term friends who testified against him. The defense tried to discredit and drew some blood to some extent, but really, either you wiped out their testimony or you didn't. If you wiped it out, he's already had his acquital party.

Its either a deeply split jury or there are hold-outs against conviction on some counts.

Guilty on one count: Obstruction. Big deal.

Bonds verdict

The mighty Fed prosecution steroids case explodes with all the intensity of a wet firecracker.

What a waste of taxpayer money.

Edited April 13, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[alankin]

Breaking News Alert

The New York Times

Wed, April 13, 2011 -- 5:47 PM ET

-----

Barry Bonds Guilty of Obstructing Justice in Steroid Case

Barry Bonds, the former outfielder who hit more career home

runs than anyone else in baseball history, was convicted

Wednesday of obstructing justice after a trial over whether

he lied about taking steroids. But the jury failed to reach a

verdict on other counts.

Read More:

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/13/bonds-jury-reaches-verdict-on-only-one-count-in-steroid-case/?emc=na

[TedR]

And I assume he's not guilty on the other three counts. After all, as Good and the defense attorneys know, there was no case here for anyone to consider. Not guilty on the other three counts. Am I right??

edit to say....just saw alankin's post. I'm wrong.

Edited April 13, 2011 by TedR

[Noj]

ESPN article... Edited April 13, 2011 by Noj

[alankin]

No, the jury didn't reach a verdict on the other counts.

[Dan Gould]

Guilty of obstruction, which I believe is actually considered a more serious crime than perjury, but hung jury on the other charges. To poo-poo this is par for Goodie's course but the reality is that now Bonds is a convicted felon, despite the fact that the "Feds have no case".

Care to revise your statement, Timmy?

Obviously the Feds did have a case. And I will bet that the other charges were split with a heavy majority toward conviction on at least some of them - what will you say Tim if it turns out one or two people kept Bonds from a clean-sweep loss?

[TedR]

Boy was I wrong! Looks like count 2 was 11 - 1. Only one juror couldn't vote guilty on the second count. 11 jurors thought he was guilty of lying!! Gimme a break....there was no case here. I still believe in your facts Goodone!

[Aggie87]

Guilty of obstruction, which I believe is actually considered a more serious crime than perjury, but hung jury on the other charges. To poo-poo this is par for Goodie's course but the reality is that now Bonds is a convicted felon, despite the fact that the "Feds have no case".

Care to revise your statement, Timmy?

Obviously the Feds did have a case. And I will bet that the other charges were split with a heavy majority toward conviction on at least some of them - what will you say Tim if it turns out one or two people kept Bonds from a clean-sweep loss?

As a self-professed advocate of the court he's now has to agree and accept that Bonds is a felon. And the 11-1 vote merely echoes what the vast majority of the population believes - that Bonds lied.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Aggie87

[Chalupa]

[RDK]

Having recently been on the jury of a rather weak prosecution case - but one in which we nevertheless found the creep guilty (we were all convinced he did it despite a weak case) - I really feel for the lone holdout and hope that it's not because s/he is a Giants fan.

[papsrus]

Seems like the longer deliberations go on, the more likely it is that Bonds is facing conviction on some counts and acquittal on some others.

Or in other words, completely and unequivocally exonerated, in the upside down world of Bonds' apologists.

Either that, or there's a Bonds' stooge on the panel and we get a hung jury.

Or he's not guilty.

Or see above.

At least the trial established that Bonds took roids.

[Brad]

It doesn't look the trial established much, it certainly didn't establish that he lied about steroids because he wasn't convicted of perjury. All in all, a big waste of money.

[Aggie87]

It doesn't look the trial established much, it certainly didn't establish that he lied about steroids because he wasn't convicted of perjury. All in all, a big waste of money.

If someone lies to a Grand Jury, they should be tried. You can't draw the line and say it's ok to lie to Grand Juries, about anything.

Bonds has admitted to taking steroids. That's good enough for me (and I presume most realistic people) to forever put an ASTERISK next to his records.

The real HR heroes:

Hank Aaron - MLB HR King - 755

Josh Gibson - American HR King - 800

Sadaharu Oh - World HR King - 868

[Brad]

Unfortunately, there will never be an asterisk next to his name or McGwire's name.

He is the HR champ in fact but not in the minds of most people or the court of public opinion.

Hopefully, he serves some jail time.

[Dan Gould]

Wait a sec - you've been critical of the prosecution and the end result, but you want to see him serve time?

So it turns out that the vote on the "no one other than my doctor and Giants trainers have ever injected me with anything" perjury count was 11-1, and the holdout's excuse was that there was no other witness than Kathy Hoskins. WTF?

In other words, because the other person who witnessed the injection, Greg Anderson, shirked his duty as a citizen and refused to testify, Bonds avoided a perjury conviction.

I'd say his future payment to Anderson will be well worth it, unless the government retries him and they find 12 people, instead of 11, to convict on that charge.

[papsrus]

Despite Bonds' admission of steroid use and the felony obstruction conviction, the prosecution failed, when all's said and done. They failed for the simple reason that they couldn't prove something that pretty much everyone already realizes is plainly obvious: that Bonds knowingly took roids.

Ting's testimony catching them completely off guard kind of illustrates that they didn't have their shit together. He flipped on them. They should have seen that coming and been prepared.

Having said that, the fact that Bonds sees an admission of steroid use and a felony conviction as some kind of victory, speaks volumes.

[Tim McG]

No, the jury didn't reach a verdict on the other counts.

Hence, he was not found guilty.

Like I said, the Feds had no case.

Despite Bonds' admission of steroid use and the felony obstruction conviction, the prosecution failed, when all's said and done. They failed for the simple reason that they couldn't prove something that pretty much everyone already realizes is plainly obvious: that Bonds knowingly took roids.

Ting's testimony catching them completely off guard kind of illustrates that they didn't have their shit together. He flipped on them. They should have seen that coming and been prepared.

Having said that, the fact that Bonds sees an admission of steroid use and a felony conviction as some kind of victory, speaks volumes.

Correction: They couldn't prove he knowingly took steroids that pretty much everyone assumes he did..

Apparently, "everybody" didn't include the members of the jury. So much for the court of public opinion.

[Tim McG]

Wait a sec - you've been critical of the prosecution and the end result, but you want to see him serve time?

So it turns out that the vote on the "no one other than my doctor and Giants trainers have ever injected me with anything" perjury count was 11-1, and the holdout's excuse was that there was no other witness than Kathy Hoskins. WTF?

In other words, because the other person who witnessed the injection, Greg Anderson, shirked his duty as a citizen and refused to testify, Bonds avoided a perjury conviction.

I'd say his future payment to Anderson will be well worth it, unless the government retries him and they find 12 people, instead of 11, to convict on that charge.

Correction, Dan: The final votes were 8-4 to acquit Bonds of lying about steroids and 9-3 to acquit him on lying about HGH use. Source: ESPN.com

Furture payment to Anderson...? What, even more speculation?

Kathy Hoskins is a liar like her brother. Dr. Ting proved that one. The ex-girlfriend lied, too. And all they could do is convict Bonds on some prosecutorial add-on [which never would have occurred if they just left it alone in the first place]. It was a joke trial, a farce and a complete waste of taxpayer money.

Haven't we had enough of this?

Seems like the longer deliberations go on, the more likely it is that Bonds is facing conviction on some counts and acquittal on some others.

Or in other words, completely and unequivocally exonerated, in the upside down world of Bonds' apologists.

Either that, or there's a Bonds' stooge on the panel and we get a hung jury.

Or he's not guilty.

Or see above.

At least the trial established that Bonds took roids.

No, it didn't.

Bonds' attorney already admited to the court he took steriods before the trial even began. They, as I predicted, couldn't prove their own case against Bonds: He knowingly took steroids.

The only thing the trial proved was he obstructed justice. That's it.

The Feds had no case.

Edited April 14, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[Tim McG]

It doesn't look the trial established much, it certainly didn't establish that he lied about steroids because he wasn't convicted of perjury. All in all, a big waste of money.

If someone lies to a Grand Jury, they should be tried. You can't draw the line and say it's ok to lie to Grand Juries, about anything.

Bonds has admitted to taking steroids. That's good enough for me (and I presume most realistic people) to forever put an ASTERISK next to his records.

The real HR heroes:

Hank Aaron - MLB HR King - 755

Josh Gibson - American HR King - 800

Sadaharu Oh - World HR King - 868

As long as we do the same for Eric Gagne and his Cy Young. Mannywood and the Red Sox WS victories. The A's WS victories with Canseco and McGuire....yeah, I'd be OK with it, too.

MLB HR King: Barry Bonds.....PERIOD.

[Tim McG]

To All: And I told you so